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post #91 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-05-2008, 08:56 PM
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Ummm, the preeminent figure in islam is Muhammad--their prophet. Of course, they view Jesus as a major prophet, as well.
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post #92 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-05-2008, 08:57 PM
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^ I thought so too, until an article I came across and can't find after consuming some of New Belgium's fine product.
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post #93 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-05-2008, 09:04 PM
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Popes

There were bishops presiding over each of the following cities, having jurisdiction over the surrounding territory as well: Jerusalem, Alexandria, Antioch, Corinth, Ethiopia, Damascus, Sardis, Constantinople, Rome, Caesarea, Nicomedia, and Tyre. The bishops were recognized as superior church prelates, and called "papa," or "pope." This title was widely used in both the Eastern and Western churches, being ascribed to all of the bishops, during the third and fourth centuries. Many doctrinal divisions were apparent among the bishops, and rivalry as to authority and power. The bishop of Jerusalem was at first given the greatest honor and respect, but later a strong rivalry arose between the pope at Constantinople and the pope, or bishop, of Rome. Because of the advantage given the Roman bishop, in being near the emperor of Rome, and both together struggling for peace and power, they early conceived of the advantage to both, in a united policy. The bishop of Rome was soon placed at the head of the clerical order, as superior bishop, and he maintained his claim of superiority by immense splendor and magnificence. His authority had, however, before the close of the fourth century, a formidable rival in the bishop of Constantinople, who at a council in that city was elevated to bishop of second clerical rank. The powers which had been invested in the people of choosing their bishops became productive of great scandal, which right was withdrawn at the council of Nice 321. -- See Hugh Smith's Church History, p. 100.

All bishops were called "papa," or pope, which title was later applied to the bishops of Constantinople, and Rome only, and much later to the bishop of Rome alone.

For a long period the pope at Constantinople regulated the affairs for the professed followers of Christ in the East, while the pope or bishop of Rome ruled the West.


Constantinople
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Constantinople (Greek: Κωνσταντινούπολις) was the original name of the modern city of İstanbul in Turkey in its role over more than a millennium as capital, first of the Eastern Roman Empire, subsequently of the Byzantine Empire. The last imperial designation reveals the city's even more ancient Greek name: Byzantium. Constantinople was located strategically between the Golden Horn and the Sea of Marmara at the point where Europe met Asia, and was highly significant as the successor to ancient Rome and the largest and wealthiest city in Europe throughout the Middle Ages.

Contents [hide]
1 Names
2 Byzantium
3 Constantine's Foundation
4 Public buildings
5 Constantinople in the Divided Empire
6 The City under Justinian
7 The City after Justinian
8 Importance of the City in its prime
9 The Isaurians
10 The Comneni and Palaeologi
11 The Ottomans
12 Further reading
13 Notes
14 See also
15 External links

[edit]Names
The name of Constantinople is an honorific eponym referencing its founder, the emperor Constantine the Great. Constantine established the Greek city of Byzantium as the second capital of the Roman Empire on May 11, AD 330, naming the city Nova Roma (New Rome). That particular name, however, enjoyed little common use, and it was as the 'City of Constantine' (Constantinopolis) that it lived through the subsequent centuries.

A historical Slavic name for the city was Tsargrad. The word is an Old Church Slavonic translation of the Greek, presumably of Βασιλέως Πόλις, "the city of the emperor [king]": combining the Slavonic words tsar for "Caesar" and grad for "city", it stood for "the City of the Emperor Caesar". As fashions have changed the term has faded, and the word Tsargrad is now an archaic term in Russian, but is still used occasionally in Bulgarian.

The Ottoman Turks called the city Stamboul or İstanbul, adopting a usage in Greek "eis tin Poli" (to or at the City). But they still used "Konstantiniyye" ("Constantine's City", or Constantinople) as the official name. When the Republic of Turkey was founded in 1923, the capital was moved to Ankara. Constantinople was officially renamed İstanbul by the Republic of Turkey in 1930.

[edit]Byzantium
Constantine's foundation of New Rome on this site reflected its strategic and commercial importance from the earliest times, lying as it does astride both the land route from Europe to Asia and the seaway from the Black or Euxine Sea to the Mediterranean, whilst also being possessed of an excellent and spacious harbour in the Golden Horn. No doubt for these reasons, a city was first founded on the site in the early days of Greek colonial expansion, when in 667 BC the legendary Byzas established it with a group of citizens from the town of Megara. This city was named Byzantium (Greek: Βυζάντιον), after its founder.

[edit]Constantine's Foundation
Constantine had altogether more ambitious plans. Having restored the unity of the empire, now overseeing the progress of major governmental reforms and sponsoring the consolidation of the Christian church, Constantine was well aware that Rome had become an unsatisfactory capital for several reasons. Located in central Italy, Rome lay too far from the eastern imperial frontiers, and hence also from the legions and the Imperial courts.Moreover, Rome offered an undesirable playground for disaffected politicians; it also suffered regularly from flooding and from malaria. It seemed impossible to many that the capital could be moved. Nevertheless, Constantine identified the site of Byzantium as the correct place: a city where an emperor could sit, readily defended, with easy access to the Danube or the Euphrates frontiers, his court supplied from the rich gardens and sophisticated workshops of Roman Asia, his treasuries filled by the wealthiest provinces of the empire.
The sack of Rome: AD 410


In the gravest crisis to confront Rome for many centuries, both the emperor (Honorius) and the pope (Innocent I) are safely elsewhere. They are sheltering on the coast, at Ravenna, when Alaric and his Visigoths enter Rome in AD 410 and spend three days gathering plunder

During Leo's pontificate Rome is threatened by Attila the Hun (in 452) and Gaiseric the Vandal (455). He negotiates with both, and is traditionally credited with persuading Attila to turn back short of Rome and with convincing Gaiseric that the city should not be utterly destroyed. Whatever the exact truth of his achievement, his actions predict a broader role for the papacy Avignon Papacy
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The Papal palace in AvignonIn the history of the Roman Catholic Church, the Avignon Papacy was the period from 1305 to 1378 during which seven popes, all French, resided in Avignon:

Pope Clement V: 1305–1314
Pope John XXII: 1316–1334
Pope Benedict XII: 1334–1342
Pope Clement VI: 1342–1352
Pope Innocent VI: 1352–1362
Pope Urban V: 1362–1370
Pope Gregory XI: 1370–1378
In 1378, Gregory XI moved the papal residence back to Rome and died there.
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post #94 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-05-2008, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
I'm not a Muslim either, which may explain my failure to convey the concept to you.

The preeminent figure in Christianity is Christ; The preeminent figure in Islam is the Qu'ran.

If that still doesn't make sense, it never will (at least not with me explaining it).

I promise I'll finish reading my book on the origin of religions.
The preeminent figure in Islam is Muhammad.

The relationship of Muhammad to the Koran ≠ that of Christ to the Bible.

The Bible is not a valid counterpart to the Koran.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #95 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-05-2008, 09:39 PM
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^But where does GQ factor in all this?
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post #96 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-05-2008, 09:54 PM
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"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #97 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-06-2008, 08:19 AM
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Today's edition:

Hamas says it was behind suicide blast in Israel | Israel and the Middle East | Guardian Unlimited
Hamas says it was behind suicide blast in Israel

Rory McCarthy in Jerusalem
Wednesday February 6, 2008

The Palestinian Islamist movement Hamas yesterday signalled a return to suicide bombing for the first time in more than three years inside Israel when it claimed responsibility for an attack in the town of Dimona on Monday.

Hamas named the two bombers as militants from Hebron, in the occupied West Bank. Abu Obeida, a recognised Hamas spokesman in Gaza, said the attack was intended to "bring a nightmare" to Dimona. The blast on Monday killed an Israeli woman and injured 11 others, including her husband.

Ehud Barak, the Israeli defence minister, also strongly hinted yesterday that the attackers were from Hebron. In a speech to cadets at a military base, Barak said Israel "will find a solution to the terror from Hebron". If the claim is correct the Dimona attack would be the first Hamas suicide bombing inside Israel since two buses were blown up in Beersheba in August 2004 and may herald a new wave of intense conflict in the Middle East.

The announcement leaves unanswered questions about the fate of two young men from Gaza whom militant factions named as the bombers just hours after the Dimona attack. The two Gazans, from the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, had made videos announcing their intention to carry out a suicide attack and were at first presumed, even by their mourning families, to have carried out the Dimona bombing. It was not clear last night whether they were still at large and intending to carry out an attack.

Israeli police were on heightened alert, with more officers deployed at shopping centres and bus and train stations across the country. However, police said there were no new specific security threats. Border police arrested 240 Palestinians overnight who had entered Israel illegally to work.

In Monday's attack a Palestinian bomber blew himself up at the entrance to a shopping centre in Dimona, in southern Israel. A second militant wearing an explosive belt was injured in the blast and was shot dead by a policeman before he could detonate his bomb. Yesterday the Hamas al-Aqsa television channel named the bombers as Mohammed Herbawi and Shadi Zghayer.
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post #98 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-06-2008, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
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^ Such phrases are to be banned as to persuade the muslim community that it is not being targeted over acts of terrorism, "Suicide bombers" will now become "Unfortunate cases of extreme self harm", "Acts of islamic fundamentalist terrorism" will be now known as "Unpleasant incidents caused by nasty people" and "Jihad" will now become "Need for greater understanding of different faiths" also "9/11" will be amalgamated with "7/7" and called "25/12" or Christmas.
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post #99 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-06-2008, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
The preeminent figure in Islam is Muhammad.

The relationship of Muhammad to the Koran ≠ that of Christ to the Bible.

The Bible is not a valid counterpart to the Koran.
Found it.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/off-...am#post2699253
No one is going to produce proof that Jesus Christ did not rise from the grave three days after the Crucifixion, of course. Humankind will choose to believe or not that God revealed Himself in this fashion. But Islam stands at risk of a Da Vinci Code effect, for in Islam, God's self-revelation took the form not of the Exodus, nor the revelation at Mount Sinai, nor the Resurrection, but rather a book, namely the Koran. The Encyclopaedia of Islam (1982) observes, "The closest analogue in Christian belief to the role of the Koran in Muslim belief is not the Bible, but Christ." The Koran alone is the revelatory event in Islam.
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post #100 of 108 (permalink) Old 02-06-2008, 10:53 AM
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Found it.

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/off-...am#post2699253
No one is going to produce proof that Jesus Christ did not rise from the grave three days after the Crucifixion, of course. Humankind will choose to believe or not that God revealed Himself in this fashion. But Islam stands at risk of a Da Vinci Code effect, for in Islam, God's self-revelation took the form not of the Exodus, nor the revelation at Mount Sinai, nor the Resurrection, but rather a book, namely the Koran. The Encyclopaedia of Islam (1982) observes, "The closest analogue in Christian belief to the role of the Koran in Muslim belief is not the Bible, but Christ." The Koran alone is the revelatory event in Islam.
In a literal sense...the Bible and the Qu'ran are both books of faith. Mohammed and Christ are the prophets of either books. One would follow the "books" as guides to the quest of the promised afterlife. Really that simple. Both use forms of propaganda that threaten of a punished afterlife if you do not obey the doctrine. Both, of course, are interpolations/views of man that where "spoken" to by God thousands of years ago. Nah, no room for error there. (I'm Catholic)

Last edited by amgdriven; 02-06-2008 at 10:56 AM.
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