On the "Stimulus Package" - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-20-2008, 09:34 AM
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To realize the biggest bang for the stimulus-buck I believe we should cut corporate tax rates in half--or to at least 25%, from the current 35% rate.

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post #22 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-20-2008, 12:17 PM
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To realize the biggest bang for the stimulus-buck I believe we should cut corporate tax rates in half--or to at least 25%, from the current 35% rate.
Being that corporations and the rich pay over 80% of all taxes, that would seem sensible for a long term solution but, you're missing something. That 'something' is that the taxation of the rich is an emotional, kneejerk reaction more than it is a practical one. It feels good to tax the rich because it looks like the right thing to do. But the wealthy and corporations simply pass these tax increases on to the consumer instead of absorbing them. Much like the most recent 'consumer lease' or rental tax hike in our state. It's where the state clarified the law as saying 'gross proceeds to leaser' as opposed to gross rental receipts resulting in a slight tax increase to all businesses who rent/lease real property. Do you think my wife and I absorbed it? Hell, no! We raised prices on rentals to cover it. Business owners, especially sole proprietorships, get the brunt end of the tax dildo, but seldom get any relief. Consumers spend more on groceries, gas, televisions, appliances, etc. because taxes are indeed, factored into the price of these products, whether we like it or not. So, giving the same tax cut to corporations and small businesses instead of giving it to a spend thrift consumer, would have a more lasting effect, in my opinion, but it's not going to happen because it looks more appealing, politically, to give it to the end user. I just am not sure that 'printing' more 'money because the government says it is' is the solution to a problem that may not really exist. We won't know until June if we are really in a recession (a recession is 6 months of economic downturn and we are still in month 1).

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post #23 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-20-2008, 01:04 PM
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What is "rich" in the USA?

What is "poor" in the USA?

I've lived places were having a roof, a change of clothes, a bed, a job and cooking utensils set that family above average for the community. These are normal people, nice people. They are not stupid or lazy. they are desperate to get to the USA and work. They know that they could do better here than at home. Who is rich?

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and that’s what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama

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post #24 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-20-2008, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by cmitch View Post
Being that corporations and the rich pay over 80% of all taxes, that would seem sensible for a long term solution but, you're missing something. That 'something' is that the taxation of the rich is an emotional, kneejerk reaction more than it is a practical one. It feels good to tax the rich because it looks like the right thing to do. But the wealthy and corporations simply pass these tax increases on to the consumer instead of absorbing them. Much like the most recent 'consumer lease' or rental tax hike in our state. It's where the state clarified the law as saying 'gross proceeds to leaser' as opposed to gross rental receipts resulting in a slight tax increase to all businesses who rent/lease real property. Do you think my wife and I absorbed it? Hell, no! We raised prices on rentals to cover it. Business owners, especially sole proprietorships, get the brunt end of the tax dildo, but seldom get any relief. Consumers spend more on groceries, gas, televisions, appliances, etc. because taxes are indeed, factored into the price of these products, whether we like it or not. So, giving the same tax cut to corporations and small businesses instead of giving it to a spend thrift consumer, would have a more lasting effect, in my opinion, but it's not going to happen because it looks more appealing, politically, to give it to the end user. I just am not sure that 'printing' more 'money because the government says it is' is the solution to a problem that may not really exist. We won't know until June if we are really in a recession (a recession is 6 months of economic downturn and we are still in month 1).
By the time we know if we are in a recession is will likely be over. I do like what I've seen of Romney's stumulus package, which is valued at nearly $250 billion, far broader and more costly than the $150 billion stimulus plan that President Bush unveiled this morning. The Romney plan resembles that of rival John McCain but takes a key cut -- the corporate tax rate -- one step further. It also wraps in benefits for individuals as well as businesses.

Mr. Romney would lower the corporate tax rate to 20% by 2009 from the 35% rate today. That's further than the McCain plan that would cut the corporate tax rate to 25%. Both men would support a permanent research-and-development tax credit, as well as the expensing of new equipment -- for Mr. Romney, the latter would be through 2009 and retroactive to the beginning of this year to allow businesses to invest in new technology.

I think he's to release his actual plan this week, so I'll wait to see what he suggests.

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post #25 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-20-2008, 02:13 PM
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Would you please delete or significantly reduce the size of that humongous dope picture! It requires us all to scroll two or three screens to the right to read new posts. A real pain in the ass!!

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post #26 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-20-2008, 02:17 PM
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Would you please delete or significantly reduce the damn size of that dope picture. It makes reading and replying almost impossible! See what I mean?

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post #27 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-20-2008, 02:56 PM
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post #28 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-20-2008, 05:37 PM
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Lets just use a figure out of the sky:
Let's say the total available money is $1,000,000,000,000 (trillion).
You hand out $800 of 'printed money' to 200 million americans. Is the trillion still worth the same as it was before? Of course not. Plentiful money is worth a helluva lot less than scarce money. I think I just described inflation, didn't I?

Now I'm a conservative and I like lower taxes. But there's going to have to be some definite proof that this 'stimulus package' is going to increase the government's tax revenues to the point it's a break even for the rebates or better, before I'm going to be on board with it. Now, the last tax cut was a boon to the economy and the gross tax revenues did actually increase, BUT, if our government can't control it's spending, and they continue to spend more than they take in, then no amount of stimulus is going to help the economy.

Right now, it sounds more like a 'stimulus fudge package', to me.
You just contradicted your own argument. The last tax rebate program did NOT stimulate the economy. It, a retarded spread legs open credit policy by the financial sector, excessive credit card spending by consumers AND deficit spending by our government are what combined to give the increase in gross tax revenues. The tax rebate by itself did nothing but raise the deficit. Only other factors made it somewhat less initially damaging. Long term it has been devastating.

Now, take out the Financial sectors "sign em if they breath" policies, consumers' "Charge, charge, charge" [because they no longer can go to their home equity to pay out their credit cards], and all you have left is a tax increase and deficit spending to further load up the National Debt. The factors that led to the increase in gross tax revenues no longer exist.

Problem is, Bush is trying the same formula to "buy our way out of the problem". Whatever plan that was going to be implemented needed to have been implemented back in May-June. Too bad the conservatives kept saying there just was no problem at all.

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post #29 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-20-2008, 05:46 PM
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To realize the biggest bang for the stimulus-buck I believe we should cut corporate tax rates in half--or to at least 25%, from the current 35% rate.
Only if we add to that the caveat that they utilize US employees and reduce offshoring AND H1B employees/contractors. Otherwise the stimulus will not be quick enough to provide any benefit.

Whatever is done is going to need to have an immediate effect. Providing cuts to corporate rates tend to not trickle down to the spending/stimulation phase for several quarters if all the corporations do is invest in materials or infrastructure.

It just has to be quicker than that.

Want to have the biggest impact, have the government buy $200B in VISA/Mastercard gift cards and send them to each household. That, while a "throw away" would provide the quickest, and most effective stimulus package.

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post #30 of 65 (permalink) Old 01-20-2008, 06:28 PM
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As for corporate income taxes, they should be sky-high to prevent direct income. Also, recipients of stock dividends should pay as if they are income (which they are). But that money shouldn't be taxed twice; if the company pays out dividends, that money should come off the bottom line, reducing income.

This isn't about stifling profitability. If the company rolls profits over and invests in itself, there shouldn't be any taxes on that money. If the company pays out to its investors, it shouldn't be taxed on that money either. But companies have absolutely no need to build huge cash reserves, without paying taxes on the income.
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