Israel slaughters another 37 Palestinians - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 132 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:20 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
Look, I won't speak for him, but consider the following:

1) Jews have been persecuted for, well, ever.
2) Palestinians, much like Muslims in general, are obviously not all individually guilty of being terrorists or "martyrs in waiting"; they are however complicit in acts of terrorism when they uniformly fail to take any opportunity to speak out against acts of terror committed in either their good names, or the name of their sacred religion.

So, you have on one hand, a people who are a touch gunshy and perhaps justifiably trigger happy (doesn't help that we've armed them quite well); and on the other side, you have a people who have a terminal case of selective memory that never fades - they remember every drop of their blood ever spilled, and find everything done to them to be an unprovoked transgression.

One follows the Geneva convention, the other fights like the cowardly fucking cunts they are.

Neither side wants to give; we shouldn't give a shit.
See, I could flip just about all of that around. Can you?

Who is cowardly again?
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post #42 of 132 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:20 PM
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Trying to equate Israel's self-defense with the intentional terrorist attacks of Islamic militants is merely an attempt to gain sympathy from the rest of the world for the plight of the Palestinian people. Reasoning that Palestinians are "martyrs" and Israeli's are "terrorists" completely distorts reality.
Did you know that there are Palestinians that are Christians?
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post #43 of 132 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:22 PM
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Are you sure?
Insofar as I can be from half a world away...I know they don't dress as civilians, strap explosives to themselves, enter crowded areas or schools, and press the detonate button in the name of Judaism.

They have a regular military, they wear uniforms, and they use military force when attacked or threatened. The fact that Israel's military is far superior to that of the PLO or whoever they are these days is irrelevant; the fact that they hate each other should also be irrelevant as far as we're concerned. Democracy and freedom and liberty are bright enough beacons and well enough understood models that for us to believe we need to reinforce or spread it throughout the world is every bit as arrogant as I never used to think it was. Follow that line of thought.
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post #44 of 132 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:22 PM
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Botnst:
I do wish that Jimmy Carter hadn't obligated the USA to perpetual bribery of israel and the surrounding states. Do I get an Amen on that one?


Drew: Amen
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post #45 of 132 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:25 PM
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See, I could flip just about all of that around. Can you?

Who is cowardly again?
Aside from the "Geneva Convention" bit, you're exactly right. A true mess, that we haven't helped out vis-a-vis our involvement.
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post #46 of 132 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:26 PM Thread Starter
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Why would I want to do that: This site already has a pretty effective cheering section for that perspective. I see nothing to be gained by joining the choir.

When people all nod in agreement there is a good chance that some proportion of them haven't thought it through. For example, I have often thought it would be fun and interesting to adopt a Christian-religious perspective and argue that one, since most of us are agnostic or atheistic toward all religion. But since I have already revealed my own agnosticism I don't think I could argue it as effectively. Maybe I could start another entity -- except in doing so, I'd risk being banned.

I'm a pretty dyed in the wool environmentalist but I can do a fair job of arguing against most environmentalism since most environmentalism is a pantheistic substitute for traditional religions. However, I feel rather strongly about that issue and so, don't wish to confuse what I believe is an important, science-based problem.

FYI, on several occasions I have said that I thought that the treatment of the Palestinians by the UN and by Israel is unjust. I said it again. If the Palestinian militants would refrain from attacking civilians I'd have greater sympathy for their cause.

I wish they would all just get along. But in the final analysis, I have greater sympathy for a theocratic democracy than a despotic theocracy. So my political sympathy is stronger toward Israel. I do wish that Jimmy Carter hadn't obligated the USA to perpetual bribery of israel and the surrounding states. Do I get an Amen on that one?

B

I don't see anything remotely resembling a "cheering section" "nodding in agreement" on this forum, however there are clearly a few people who dare to question the received wisdom on this topic. That's a good thing.

I wish you would start a thread about environmentalism (a subject about which I too feel strongly) and your perception of it vis-a-vis religion. That might be interesting.

Thank you for stating the obvious about the humanity of Palestinians. I haven't seen you do it before and I hope it wasn't too painful. If I thought my country were remotely evenhanded in this conflict I wouldn't be so passionate myself.

Should Carter have bribed Israel and Egypt? Good question. He did make peace between them, so it could be argued that he needed to speak in a language they would understand.
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post #47 of 132 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
^ Insofar as I can be from half a world away...I know they don't dress as civilians, strap explosives to themselves, enter crowded areas or schools, and press the detonate button in the name of Judaism.

They have a regular military, they wear uniforms, and they use military force when attacked or threatened. The fact that Israel's military is far superior to that of the PLO or whoever they are these days is irrelevant; the fact that they hate each other should also be irrelevant as far as we're concerned. Democracy and freedom and liberty are bright enough beacons and well enough understood models that for us to believe we need to reinforce or spread it throughout the world is every bit as arrogant as I never used to think it was. Follow that line of thought.
Dude, the Palestinians have no state, what army or uniform should they belong to?
As to the killing of Israeli civilians, yes shame on them and the ones that did it should rot in hell and justly be labeled terrorists. The problem right now is that Israel has committed many crimes but no one dares to challenge it because of responses like the one you see here. All based on them against us or bullshit like all of those Muslims are out to get us. Just look at Bottomline's post and try to convince me that it reeks of intelligence.
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post #48 of 132 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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Aside from the "Geneva Convention" bit, you're exactly right. A true mess, that we haven't helped out vis-a-vis our involvement.
Oh wow. Read up on the treatment of Palestinian prisoners, if you dare. It was a horrific education for me. Incidentally, guess who trained our CIA torturers....
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post #49 of 132 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:29 PM
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Okay, let's focus on the important issue.

We (America) have no business being involved there. None.
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post #50 of 132 (permalink) Old 01-19-2008, 09:30 PM
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Oh wow. Read up on the treatment of Palestinian prisoners, if you dare. It was a horrific education for me. Incidentally, guess who trained our CIA torturers....
oh, don't go there You don't want to wake up the children now do you?
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