Should school teachers be paid like entertainers? - Page 4 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #31 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 06:59 PM
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Wrong again.

Each individual should act as a free agent.
Why? Because you think it would be more "fair"?

If each individual decides to get together an join a collective, that too is a free market decision. The other side [school board] certainly is working from a group position, why should the teacher not have the same posture of negotiation when determining their position.

Sorry, Not wrong at all.

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post #32 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 07:00 PM
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Why? If each individual decides to get together an join a collective, that too is a free market decision.

Sorry, Not wrong at all.
If it's a free association, I got no beef with it.

B

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post #33 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 08:39 PM
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So if they join in collective bargaining through the NEA to achieve the monetary and benefit goals what they are willing to work for that is OK?
The NEA and the AFT are at the heart of our problem in education today. Get them out of the mix and our schools would begin to improve.

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post #34 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 08:47 PM
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So you want vouchers to pay for private schools when there are public schools already built for students to attend? You have always spoken of smaller government and now you want to increase the size of the infrastructure with a "market based", government funded hodgepodge of independent school systems. This leads to redundancy in services, redundancy in spending and inefficiencies. And that does not even move to the subject of curriculum issues when you ask a government to start paying for faith based education [which gets into the "which faiths to fund issue].

And it is good that we have so few Bret Favres. With the number of concussions he has had I am not sure he would make that great of a calculus teacher.
If the money followed the child--as it does in higher education--bad schools would be forced to close and good schools would be rewarded. The failed public monopoly we call our education system, backed by the teacher's unions, will never permit a public school to close for any reason--especially incompetence. Vouchers would not increase redundancy and inefficiencies, they would eliminate them. By causing bad schools to close, vouchers would likely streamline the education system if implemented properly.

It is no accident that the U.S. is recognized as having the best colleges and universities in the world and the worst elementary and secondary schools in the world, and the system of having the money go where the student wants to go is at the heart of that system.

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post #35 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 08:53 PM
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Good post, Jay. The GI Bill was the ultimate voucher system.

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post #36 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
If the money followed the child--as it does in higher education--bad schools would be forced to close and good schools would be rewarded. The failed public monopoly we call our education system, backed by the teacher's unions, will never permit a public school to close for any reason--especially incompetence. Vouchers would not increase redundancy and inefficiencies, they would eliminate them. By causing bad schools to close, vouchers would likely streamline the education system if implemented properly.

It is no accident that the U.S. is recognized as having the best colleges and universities in the world and the worst elementary and secondary schools in the world, and the system of having the money go where the student wants to go is at the heart of that system.
You forgot one big factor in large cities, it's called : capacity
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post #37 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 08:54 PM
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They should be paid more than they are now, that is for sure. It is our greatest failing and one perpetuated by greed.
If we had an open and competitive public school system they would be paid more if they good and they would be paid less if they were not. And, God forbid, they would be fired if they were bad. That cannot happen in the union-controlled, tenure-governed, schools we have now.

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post #38 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 09:01 PM
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I think they should be first hired based on experience in the subject field they are supposed to teach. Let me give you an example: I could not get a job as a high school teacher in Baltimore city to teach math, computers or physics because I did not have an ED degree.
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post #39 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 09:04 PM
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You forgot one big factor in large cities, it's called : capacity
You'd be amazed how the concept of "capacity" changes when the concept of "quality" enters into the formula!

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post #40 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 09:08 PM
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You'd be amazed how the concept of "capacity" changes when the concept of "quality" enters into the formula!
Capacity is finite and quantitative, how do you measure quality and plug it into a model?
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