Education should be as important an election issue as the economy, terrorism, etc. - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #61 of 97 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 06:49 PM
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^Bullshit. Teach a person to memorize and they can work for you. Teach a person to think and they will work on their own. See?
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post #62 of 97 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 06:52 PM
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^Bullshit. Teach a person to memorize and they can work for you. Teach a person to think and they will work on their own. See?
Point taken.

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and that’s what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #63 of 97 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 07:36 AM
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Yet another reason to abolish federal involvement in public education: Standardization. As if all kids and all communities are the same. Bull-poopie, I say!

In my local school system they absolutely do teach to the standardized test while actively discouraging teachers from stepping outside of the the testing subject areas. In Mrs B's case, she has to sneak-in a couple of hours a week to teach the kids about different styles of visual art and famous artists through history. It ain't in the curriculum, it ain't the 3 R's, it shouldn't be taught.

What a ass-backwards concept of education that is! We are teaching kids to be mini-encyclopedias, as though the Internet isn't available. What they should be doing is teaching the rudimentary tools (the 3 R's) about 10% of the time and spend the other 90% of the time teaching kids how to think and reflect and consider. What value is knowledge without wisdom?

B
Agreed 100%. Knowledge is now a commodity; it's how to apply that knowledge that differentiates people. We're a knowledge worker society. Using our brains has taken the place of breaking our backs in factories.
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post #64 of 97 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 08:16 AM
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There was a commercial back in the 60's that I believe was a product of the President's Council on Physical Fitness.

It featured a voice over talking about the need to use our bodies and not just our brains. The scene was sometime in the distant future where a faceless robot named "Z 12" (funny how I can remember that but I'm not sure I mailed the mortgage check last week) carries in a glass box containing a live human head. As Z 12 exits, stage right, the head becomes animated as it begins to perform calculations, starting with "The integral of X..." while the voice over continues.

At the end of the commercial, the head announces, "Z 12, I finished now."

Z 12 does not return.

The head becomes more agitated and concerned as it calls for Z 12 who apparently, will never be coming back.

Fade to black.

I wish I could find it.

There was another one where various typical Americans are performing activities involving their wrists such as a man drawing a pool cue back and forth before making his shot, a guy popping peanuts into his mouth while he reclines in front of the TV and so forth.

The voice over, at the end of the message says, "Nobody can say anything bad about our wrists!"

Good stuff.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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post #65 of 97 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 09:46 AM
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^^
I think you did too many mushrooms back then
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post #66 of 97 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Yet another reason to abolish federal involvement in public education: Standardization. As if all kids and all communities are the same. Bull-poopie, I say!

In my local school system they absolutely do teach to the standardized test while actively discouraging teachers from stepping outside of the the testing subject areas. In Mrs B's case, she has to sneak-in a couple of hours a week to teach the kids about different styles of visual art and famous artists through history. It ain't in the curriculum, it ain't the 3 R's, it shouldn't be taught.

What a ass-backwards concept of education that is! We are teaching kids to be mini-encyclopedias, as though the Internet isn't available. What they should be doing is teaching the rudimentary tools (the 3 R's) about 10% of the time and spend the other 90% of the time teaching kids how to think and reflect and consider. What value is knowledge without wisdom?

B
The problem is not the national standardization, the problem is the testing methodology and the financial carrot that stimulates the concept of teaching to the test.

You are dead on that we should be teaching kids critical thinking and reasoning skills first but we also need to teach those 3Rs as we don't/won't always have that shiny internet at hand and an over dependence on technology in itself dampens the skillset.

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post #67 of 97 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 10:51 AM
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^Bullshit. Teach a person to memorize and they can work for you. Teach a person to think and they will work on their own. See?
If the teaching were at the Corporate level I can see that. Most should be done prior to that, I hope.

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Kentucky

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post #68 of 97 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 11:16 AM
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The problem is not the national standardization, the problem is the testing methodology and the financial carrot that stimulates the concept of teaching to the test.

You are dead on that we should be teaching kids critical thinking and reasoning skills first but we also need to teach those 3Rs as we don't/won't always have that shiny internet at hand and an over dependence on technology in itself dampens the skillset.
The workers in my area need the 3R's. that is a planetary fundamental educational requirement. But to suggest that the curriculum of New York City schools and Meteetsie Wyoming schools should conform is a revelation. My curiosity comples me to ask: Beyond the 3 R's what is the skill set in the Bronx that is useful in Meteetsie?

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and that’s what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #69 of 97 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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If the teaching were at the Corporate level I can see that. Most should be done prior to that, I hope.
Interesting you say that because corporations today are spending $Billions annually (re?)teaching new hires those skills the public schools are supposed to be teaching. Instead, the public schools are doing the absolute minimum to move them out into the real world where they often crash and burn--and become an added burden on the corporations of this country. It is NOT the testing methodology that is the problem, it is the teaching methodology that sucks! I spent over 30 years trying to change that system, but to no avail. As long as that entrenched, failed, public monopoly, backed/controlled by its unions persists, I fear there is no solution. That is why I was so glad to see the feds get involved, w/ the NCLB law. Ordinarily I'd oppose federal intervention on most issues, but when it comes to our education system I now believe there is no other (realist) solution.

Don't believe everything you think

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post #70 of 97 (permalink) Old 01-16-2008, 01:09 PM
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Interesting you say that because corporations today are spending $Billions annually (re?)teaching new hires those skills the public schools are supposed to be teaching. Instead, the public schools are doing the absolute minimum to move them out into the real world where they often crash and burn--and become an added burden on the corporations of this country. It is NOT the testing methodology that is the problem, it is the teaching methodology that sucks! I spent over 30 years trying to change that system, but to no avail. As long as that entrenched, failed, public monopoly, backed/controlled by its unions persists, I fear there is no solution. That is why I was so glad to see the feds get involved, w/ the NCLB law. Ordinarily I'd oppose federal intervention on most issues, but when it comes to our education system I now believe there is no other (realist) solution.
Gawd almighty, you and McBear see the same thing: Problem? Through another layer of bureaucracy in there. Typical big gov thinking.

Why not try something different, like devolution of power? Give power to the people who teach -- teachers. If they don't perform up to community standards (ie, what parents expect of their own kids expect) fire the teacher. You know, like real life.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and that’s what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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