Wouldn't a Stylish, Numerical Wrist Tattoo have been more Sensible? - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-12-2008, 08:11 PM
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So a Benz dealer is suddenly an authority on national security?

I think the cash transaction issues you raised have more to do with RICO and money laundering/organized crime than they do with the Patriot Act.

Look, I'm down with keeping government out of my business. If this freaks you out, look around at your presidential candidates and *you* tell *me* which of them you think is least likely to perpetuate the march towards McCarthyism and Kremlin-like oversight of the people.

I won't even count the first couple of guesses.
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post #22 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-12-2008, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
So a Benz dealer is suddenly an authority on national security?

I think the cash transaction issues you raised have more to do with RICO and money laundering/organized crime than they do with the Patriot Act.

Look, I'm down with keeping government out of my business. If this freaks you out, look around at your presidential candidates and *you* tell *me* which of them you think is least likely to perpetuate the march towards McCarthyism and Kremlin-like oversight of the people.

I won't even count the first couple of guesses.


Not sure about the States and when they started inacting this reporting of csh regulations but here in SE Asia we saw it about 6 months after 9/11 mostly due to the regulations coming out of the States as most banks I deal with are on the NYSE and subject to those US regulations........
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post #23 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-13-2008, 04:30 AM
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I bet I could have a National ID card, 3 picture IDs and a barcode tattooed on my forehead and I STILL couldn't buy beer at the liquor store just outside the Vidor city limits because I don't have a Texas driver's license.

Let's see Nutz futz thusly.


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post #24 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-14-2008, 01:03 PM Thread Starter
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If some of those things were true, I'd be concerned. As I understand it, they're not.

To your other points, I guess I'm not cynical enough yet to believe that every company is secretly in on the plot to control the populace a la soviet Russia; barring a law that mandates they require a "REAL ID" versus a state ID or passport, I'm not sure how having one or not would keep you from being employed. But, that said, the government already knows everything about you based on tax records anyway. Credit card records are a subpoena away. No real trick for the gov't.

Most of the fears (short of McBear's valid assertion that they suck at security) are borne of ignorance; they already have ready enough access to this information if they need it. REAL ID would maybe cut down the time it takes them to get it, nothing more. I don't see this as a violation of civil liberties, but I do see it as an affront to the permanently paranoid.
Here is another cog in the gear set.

US drafting plan to allow government access to any email or Web search
RAW STORY
Published: Monday January 14, 2008

National Intelligence Director Mike McConnell is drawing up plans for cyberspace spying that would make the current debate on warrantless wiretaps look like a "walk in the park," according to an interview published in the New Yorker's print edition today.

Debate on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act “will be a walk in the park compared to this,” McConnell said. “this is going to be a goat rope on the Hill. My prediction is that we’re going to screw around with this until something horrendous happens.”

The article, which profiles the 65-year-old former admiral appointed by President George W. Bush in January 2007 to oversee all of America's intelligence agencies, was not published on the New Yorker's Web site. (It can be read here in pdf).

McConnell is developing a Cyber-Security Policy, still in the draft stage, which will closely police Internet activity.

"Ed Giorgio, who is working with McConnell on the plan, said that would mean giving the government the autority to examine the content of any e-mail, file transfer or Web search," author Lawrence Wright pens.

“Google has records that could help in a cyber-investigation, he said," Wright adds. "Giorgio warned me, 'We have a saying in this business: ‘Privacy and security are a zero-sum game.'"

A zero-sum game is one in which gains by one side come at the expense of the other. In other words -- McConnell's aide believes greater security can only come at privacy's expense.

McConnell has been an advocate for computer-network defense, which has previously not been the province of any intelligence agency.

According to a 2007 conversation in the Oval Office, McConnell told President Bush, “If the 9/11 perpetrators had focused on a single US bank through cyber-attack and it had been successful, it would have an order of magnitude greater impact on the US economy.”

Bush turned to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson, asking him if it was true; Paulson said that it was. Bush then asked to McConnell to come up with a network security strategy.

"One proposal of McConnell’s Cyber-Security Policy, which is still in the draft stage, is to reduce the access points between government computers and the Internet from two thousand to fifty," Wright notes. "He claimed that cyber-theft account for as much as a hundred billion dollars in annual losses to the American economy. 'The real problem is the perpetrator who doesn’t care about stealing—he just wants to destroy.'"

The infrastructure to tap into Americans' email and web search history may already be in place.

In November, a former technician at AT&T alleged that the telecom forwarded virtually all of its Internet traffic into a "secret room" to facilitate government spying.

Whistleblower Mark Klein said that a copy of all Internet traffic passing over AT&T lines was copied into a locked room at the company's San Francisco office -- to which only employees with National Security Agency clearance had access -- via a cable splitting device.

"My job was to connect circuits into the splitter device which was hard-wired to the secret room," Klein. said "And effectively, the splitter copied the entire data stream of those Internet cables into the secret room -- and we're talking about phone conversations, email web browsing, everything that goes across the Internet."

"As a technician, I had the engineering wiring documents, which told me how the splitter was wired to the secret room," Klein continued. "And so I know that whatever went across those cables was copied and the entire data stream was copied."

According to Klein, that information included Internet activity about Americans.

"We're talking about domestic traffic as well as international traffic," Klein said. Previous Bush administration claims that only international communications were being intercepted aren't accurate, he added.

"I know the physical equipment, and I know that statement is not true," he added. "It involves millions of communications, a lot of it domestic communications that they're copying wholesale."

The Raw Story | US drafting plan to allow government access to any email or Web search

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post #25 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-14-2008, 05:53 PM
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If any of us actually let something like that to pass...there's something horribly wrong. Once again...I really should move to another country. But I would hope nothing like that can actually pass, it violates so many privacy laws.

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post #26 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-14-2008, 06:07 PM
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If any of us actually let something like that to pass...there's something horribly wrong. Once again...I really should move to another country. But I would hope nothing like that can actually pass, it violates so many privacy laws.
Unfortunately it will pass because fear has been successfully implanted in the psyche of our nation. Not one politician on the road for the presidency is advocating a return to the American way, they all want to top Stalin while playing Hitlerian politics
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post #27 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-14-2008, 08:05 PM Thread Starter
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If any of us actually let something like that to pass...there's something horribly wrong. Once again...I really should move to another country. But I would hope nothing like that can actually pass, it violates so many privacy laws.
All you will hear are repeated references to 9/11. Those are the magic words.

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post #28 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-14-2008, 09:01 PM
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I'm not sure if I should be excited when we get a new pres. or be worried since things have been going the way they have for a while now...

I started getting curious how Canadian and different European countries compare to privacy/security we have at the moment.

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post #29 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-14-2008, 09:11 PM
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^ Nice to see you awake. Let me know how your analysis of our current crop of Presidential candidates goes.

(Hint: Read the sig below)
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post #30 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-15-2008, 07:47 AM
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From what I've seen about these new ID cards, it's not much different from getting a commercial drivers licence. CDL's are in a national database that makes sure you don't have one in another state. You are also subject to a criminal background check, and citizenship/immigration check when you apply or renew. (This may be required only for the Hazardous materials endorsement.)
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