Wouldn't a Stylish, Numerical Wrist Tattoo have been more Sensible? - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-11-2008, 09:57 PM Thread Starter
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As long as we keep up the Fear, Uncertainty and Dread, this will continue.

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post #12 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-11-2008, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Jakarta Expat View Post
Just get an International Driver's License, you are covered and the authorities would not know what to make of it...............
There is a time limit on how long people who have moved to the U.S. can use their International drivers licenses.
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post #13 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-11-2008, 10:08 PM
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^^^^Foiled by the Wizard of Oz again..................
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post #14 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-12-2008, 04:41 AM
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Indulge me; why, again, is this a bad thing?
Briefly, as the ACLU guy said on TV this morning,
"It's the last step to becoming a 'Your papers, please.' society."

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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post #15 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-12-2008, 05:47 AM
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How would you like to have a virtual GPS unit broadcasting your whereabout, what you ate, who you fuked or simply who you talked to while you have never committed a crime in your life and are under no court order to report where you ass has been or is going?
A driver license like this one will track your movements through airports, train stations and liquor stores because you will have to present it to see your moma or buy a Mad 20/20.
Should you choose not to carry it, what would you do when you get pulled over? How would you be treated? How would you feel to be a second class citizen because you did not want to play the game?
You let the dude put his foot in the door's crack now he's in and there is nothing you can do to get him out. All he wanted to do initially was to talk to you now he's in there taking a dump on your kitchen table. Think about it. You get a license with code that seems harmless because it identifies you but it's capable of doing a lot more than that. It can be used to code in your health scores, your ethnicity, your credit score and even some future score that identifies your level of or lack or patriotism based on your behavior, posts, family and friends conversations. Do you get the picture? Will you get the picture when a potential employer asks you for your license when you apply for a job? What will it take for you to value your privacy?
If some of those things were true, I'd be concerned. As I understand it, they're not.

You'd only need it to board airplanes and enter federal buildings. No RFID tag embedded.

To your other points, I guess I'm not cynical enough yet to believe that every company is secretly in on the plot to control the populace a la soviet Russia; barring a law that mandates they require a "REAL ID" versus a state ID or passport, I'm not sure how having one or not would keep you from being employed. But, that said, the government already knows everything about you based on tax records anyway. Credit card records are a subpoena away. No real trick for the gov't.

Most of the fears (short of McBear's valid assertion that they suck at security) are borne of ignorance; they already have ready enough access to this information if they need it. REAL ID would maybe cut down the time it takes them to get it, nothing more. I don't see this as a violation of civil liberties, but I do see it as an affront to the permanently paranoid.

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In California, for example, officials expect the only major change to adopt the first phase would be to take the photograph at the beginning of the application process instead of the end.
After reading Republic, the thought is a bit more chilling, but that was a work of fiction that required a significant suspension of disbelief to even get through the first 100 pages.
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post #16 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-12-2008, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
If some of those things were true, I'd be concerned. As I understand it, they're not.

You'd only need it to board airplanes and enter federal buildings. No RFID tag embedded.

To your other points, I guess I'm not cynical enough yet to believe that every company is secretly in on the plot to control the populace a la soviet Russia; barring a law that mandates they require a "REAL ID" versus a state ID or passport, I'm not sure how having one or not would keep you from being employed. But, that said, the government already knows everything about you based on tax records anyway. Credit card records are a subpoena away. No real trick for the gov't.

Most of the fears (short of McBear's valid assertion that they suck at security) are borne of ignorance; they already have ready enough access to this information if they need it. REAL ID would maybe cut down the time it takes them to get it, nothing more. I don't see this as a violation of civil liberties, but I do see it as an affront to the permanently paranoid.



After reading Republic, the thought is a bit more chilling, but that was a work of fiction that required a significant suspension of disbelief to even get through the first 100 pages.
Yeah right!
Most companies would be sold on this idea for "marketing reasons". Remember what I just told you when one day at check out counter you will be asked to swipe your driver license for identification before purchase.
I understand why you are thinking that I am cynical but remember that the target audience here is the young crowd that has been taught a watered down version of what freedom means in America. You are not a target of such because you are wiser but you're stupid enough to fall for it in terms that if it's just for the kids and not me than everything must be alright. It will appeal to your social class seeking agenda since you will feel privileged for not being under the same control mechanism as the young rowdy youths
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post #17 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-12-2008, 06:02 PM
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When I read about having to get a new drivers license I wasn't very happy. Especially when there is talk about how taking a flight will become more challenging...what's next, will I have to whip it out and take a piss before boarding so they can confirm I don't have anything in my system that might make me a security risk? I just think that this country is becoming a bigger and bigger pain in the ass to live in...we decide to "help" other countries when it doesn't always help them, and only makes us and all of our children/grandchildren pay off the debt...and as time progresses our freedoms become more restricted through one law or another. Honestly why do we need new ID's that badly? Yes, so terrorists can use fake ID's...there are tons of them floating around in the hands of thankful college students across the country (fake ID's not terrorists)...as long as there are rules to be broken, people will find a way to either break them or get around them so why do we need to have an illusion of security made by doing stuff like this? Ok, I have bitched enough for now...I should probably just move to Canada...

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post #18 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-12-2008, 07:45 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
If some of those things were true, I'd be concerned. As I understand it, they're not.

You'd only need it to board airplanes and enter federal buildings. No RFID tag embedded.

To your other points, I guess I'm not cynical enough yet to believe that every company is secretly in on the plot to control the populace a la soviet Russia; barring a law that mandates they require a "REAL ID" versus a state ID or passport, I'm not sure how having one or not would keep you from being employed. But, that said, the government already knows everything about you based on tax records anyway. Credit card records are a subpoena away. No real trick for the gov't.

Most of the fears (short of McBear's valid assertion that they suck at security) are borne of ignorance; they already have ready enough access to this information if they need it. REAL ID would maybe cut down the time it takes them to get it, nothing more. I don't see this as a violation of civil liberties, but I do see it as an affront to the permanently paranoid.


Re: requiring REAL ID, you need to reread the regulations. The feds ARE mandating that all states comply with REAL ID requirements.

It's not paranoia. I have played with enough Carnivore Bot design issues and had enough design chats with other systems architects to understand the desire for spherical omnisource access. Nothing is ever requested in a single "We want to make a system to..."; instead a building block of subsystems are architected into place. Some can be done now but with clumsy effort and much legal entanglements. The further we move away from "Right of Privacy" and towards "controlled access" the easier the blocks are to link.

Right now, as an example I can't buy a car at a dealer with $20,000 cash without filling out forms. I can't cash a check at many banks without a thumb print [even with my ID]. If I sell a car, I can't deposit over $10,000 in cash to a bank without filling out federal forms. WHY? When did the Government have a NEED to know about these transactions? The last time, at the Benz dealer I was told it was due to a "Patriot Act provision".

There is a VERY limited set of things our Government and Law Enforcement has a NEED to know or collect. That should be the extent of their access. PERIOD.

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post #19 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-12-2008, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Sphynx View Post
When I read about having to get a new drivers license I wasn't very happy. Especially when there is talk about how taking a flight will become more challenging...what's next, will I have to whip it out and take a piss before boarding so they can confirm I don't have anything in my system that might make me a security risk? I just think that this country is becoming a bigger and bigger pain in the ass to live in...we decide to "help" other countries when it doesn't always help them, and only makes us and all of our children/grandchildren pay off the debt...and as time progresses our freedoms become more restricted through one law or another. Honestly why do we need new ID's that badly? Yes, so terrorists can use fake ID's...there are tons of them floating around in the hands of thankful college students across the country (fake ID's not terrorists)...as long as there are rules to be broken, people will find a way to either break them or get around them so why do we need to have an illusion of security made by doing stuff like this? Ok, I have bitched enough for now...I should probably just move to Canada...
Don't go to Canada because they don't look like us; here is the proof:
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post #20 of 30 (permalink) Old 01-12-2008, 08:04 PM
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Re: requiring REAL ID, you need to reread the regulations. The feds ARE mandating that all states comply with REAL ID requirements.

It's not paranoia. I have played with enough Carnivore Bot design issues and had enough design chats with other systems architects to understand the desire for spherical omnisource access. Nothing is ever requested in a single "We want to make a system to..."; instead a building block of subsystems are architected into place. Some can be done now but with clumsy effort and much legal entanglements. The further we move away from "Right of Privacy" and towards "controlled access" the easier the blocks are to link.

Right now, as an example I can't buy a car at a dealer with $20,000 cash without filling out forms. I can't cash a check at many banks without a thumb print [even with my ID]. If I sell a car, I can't deposit over $10,000 in cash to a bank without filling out federal forms. WHY? When did the Government have a NEED to know about these transactions? The last time, at the Benz dealer I was told it was due to a "Patriot Act provision".

There is a VERY limited set of things our Government and Law Enforcement has a NEED to know or collect. That should be the extent of their access. PERIOD.
So a Benz dealer is suddenly an authority on national security?

I think the cash transaction issues you raised have more to do with RICO and money laundering/organized crime than they do with the Patriot Act.

Look, I'm down with keeping government out of my business. If this freaks you out, look around at your presidential candidates and *you* tell *me* which of them you think is least likely to perpetuate the march towards McCarthyism and Kremlin-like oversight of the people.

I won't even count the first couple of guesses.
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