New Hampshire Primary: Round 2 - Nothing for Granite - Page 9 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #81 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 10:06 AM
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^ That's because buses don't go to Afghanistan.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #82 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 10:19 AM
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Another good reason to annex the place. Heck, a lot of economists think the black middle class arose because we drafted them off the streets into the Army during Nam, maybe we could do the same for the Mexicans. And wouldn't be ironic if we invaded Canada with a Mexican Army? We could call it the NAFTA Division.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #83 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
"The Law is the Law" and "the right thing is the right thing" got me thinking again about the Republican debates.

When the subject was Immigration the phrase was "the law is the law". There was no ambiguity.

Now, when it came to the discussion of Gitmo and how we handle terrorists and those who might be terrorists all that "the law is the law" and "the right thing is the right thing" got just a little fuzzy.

In an exchange between Thompson and Huckabee where Huckabee was saying that he thought the prisoners were treated too well but thought they could just as well be brought to the US, Thompson said that we wouldn't want to do that because if we brought them here they would have the right of habeas corpus.



So, the Law is the Law unless it gets in the way of what we feel is necessary and "the right thing is the right thing" as long as it is convenient for a subset of the people but not necessarily for everyone.

Do we just demand that we apply the law when it is politically convenient and other times...not so much.

So, which is it?
Don't see how a reasonable person can look for hypocrisy where non exists; but McBare does it again. As long as the several hundred Gitmo detainees are safe and secure in Cuba they are no threat to us and we can glean info from them that may be helpful in prosecuting the war on terrorists.

If the libs (include Huckabee here) bring the detainees onto our soil, the legal sharks will have a feeding frenzy getting liberal judges to release them into the general population. Guess what? They won't become Avon ladies. They have been trained to kill us infidels and that's what will happen. If kept in our local prisons they will just recruit more fascist muslims from those willing seed-beds of hate. In Cuba they are relatively harmless; a very rational policy.

Now, that I think of it, could we release them all into Kentucky?

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post #84 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 11:25 AM
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Question

Yes, better that we be torturing fascists than trust in our legal system. Whenever I hear far rightwingers, they spout in stupid generalites and buzz words. You take the cake.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #85 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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...and then in the next thread I read regarding a different subject, I see this. I am conflicted.



http://www.benzworld.org/forums/off-...ml#post2688944
That is my entire point. Our laws must be fluid to the circumstance. That is both the best and worst of what we have to offer the world. In the one case I was pointing out that the Right can't decide when we are going to be Law & Order just for political expediency and in the other case I was point out that we have to decide if we capitulate our Law & Order philosophy to get down in the dirt with the bad guys.

In the "best of McBear's World" on these two subjects we would 1) address the Immigration laws to reflect the decades old tacit approval of the system and retool them to have as little impact on the National Economy as possible and 2) we would bring the folks at Gitmo into the US Justice system, charge them with crimes, give them trials and let the system do its job. Both require bending by everyone as we are facing issues that have not been foreseen and current laws on the books don't adequately reflect.

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post #86 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 11:41 AM Thread Starter
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Don't see how a reasonable person can look for hypocrisy where non exists; but McBare does it again. As long as the several hundred Gitmo detainees are safe and secure in Cuba they are no threat to us and we can glean info from them that may be helpful in prosecuting the war on terrorists.

If the libs (include Huckabee here) bring the detainees onto our soil, the legal sharks will have a feeding frenzy getting liberal judges to release them into the general population. Guess what? They won't become Avon ladies. They have been trained to kill us infidels and that's what will happen. If kept in our local prisons they will just recruit more fascist muslims from those willing seed-beds of hate. In Cuba they are relatively harmless; a very rational policy.

Now, that I think of it, could we release them all into Kentucky?
The issue is because we live under laws that a person cannot be detained without having charges brought against them. I have no problem with holding any person that has been charged and convicted of a crime against a person, state or humanity. But to hold a person for years without charging them of any crime is against our laws. It is against our Constitution. It is against our moral compass.

The absolute fallacy of your argument is that you 1) posit they are guilty of something and then 2) assume they would be released after going through our legal system. If they are indeed guilty, the second seems unlikely. If, on the other hand we have no evidence of guilt of any crimes, we are the ones that are holding them against our laws.

And therein lies the hypocrisy.

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post #87 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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An interesting video of Bill Clinton going off against Obama. I don't think this is going to play well.

ABC News

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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #88 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 02:46 PM
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Couldn't get the video to come up, not that it matters. Hillary's "meltdown" has handed the nomination to Obama. If she were to win it now, she'd get her ass handed to her come election time. The President has to be in control at all times. Her little "on the verge of tears sniffling" has torpedoed any chance she had.
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post #89 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 02:52 PM
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Agreed! We can't have human beings in the White House.
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post #90 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Fast55 View Post
Couldn't get the video to come up, not that it matters. Hillary's "meltdown" has handed the nomination to Obama. If she were to win it now, she'd get her ass handed to her come election time. The President has to be in control at all times. Her little "on the verge of tears sniffling" has torpedoed any chance she had.
Though I think it only human of her to cry, that sort of thing does tend to leave a negative feeling w/ the electorate. Remember Ed Musky on the stump in NH? It cost him the nomination and ultimately the democrat's election hopes. It may be more forgivable because she is a woman, but it will be interesting to see if there is a sexual element to all of this political BS (bear shit)...

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