New Hampshire Primary: Round 2 - Nothing for Granite - Page 8 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #71 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 09:56 PM
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There is no comparison between what happened w/ the real estate bubble and the SS system. It will face difficulties, but nothing that cannot be handled if and when Congress gets down to action, which it will do eventually--probably at the 11th hour like everything else they do.

Yes and until Congress actually does something the SS system can just lower the payouts right.......some seniors are eating dog food now as they cannot afford anything else

As far as action by congressmen who have made themselves rich via the system they manipulate, don't count on action until 23:59 or even 00:05 they will never eat dog food.........
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post #72 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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There was always going to be a housing crash, and for the same reason there has got to be a SS crisis.
SS can still be saved if folks will focus on it. The real problem is going to be the medicare element and that is going to depend on what happens with insurance.

As for the housing crash, there was always going to be a bursting of the bubble for the expanding housing market [house prices always going up, always growth markets, always an ability to flip] but the Sub-Prime is actually a completely different animal that just managed to FUBAR at the same time [with cross-contribution] as the housing bubble. Neither would have been as bad as they were if the other had not come along at the same time. Of course the easy money is what fueled the speculator market and the flippers and the subprime biz helped provide the fuel.

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post #73 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 10:01 PM
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^ Agree 100%.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #74 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 10:31 PM Thread Starter
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The Law is the Law

"The Law is the Law" and "the right thing is the right thing" got me thinking again about the Republican debates.

When the subject was Immigration the phrase was "the law is the law". There was no ambiguity.

Now, when it came to the discussion of Gitmo and how we handle terrorists and those who might be terrorists all that "the law is the law" and "the right thing is the right thing" got just a little fuzzy.

In an exchange between Thompson and Huckabee where Huckabee was saying that he thought the prisoners were treated too well but thought they could just as well be brought to the US, Thompson said that we wouldn't want to do that because if we brought them here they would have the right of habeas corpus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by one of those law&order thingies
A writ of habeas corpus directs a person, usually a prison warden, to produce the prisoner and justify the prisoner's detention.
So, the Law is the Law unless it gets in the way of what we feel is necessary and "the right thing is the right thing" as long as it is convenient for a subset of the people but not necessarily for everyone.

Do we just demand that we apply the law when it is politically convenient and other times...not so much.

So, which is it?

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post #75 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-07-2008, 11:33 PM Thread Starter
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Back to the Primary, looks like Hillary is taking a page out of Lloyd Bentsen's playbook.


Hillary to Obama: You're No JFK (or MLK)

January 07, 2008 9:45 PM

Perhaps hoping to pivot away from her unusual comments criticizing Sen. Barack Obama by comparing him to Martin Luther King Jr., who delivered great speeches, and herself to President Lyndon Johnson, who actually passed civil rights laws (Read more on that HERE). Clinton said the following this evening in Salem, N.H.:

"Today Senator Obama used President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. to criticize me," she said, according to ABC News' Eloise Harper. "Basically he compared himself to two of our greatest heroes saying, 'Well, they gave great speeches.' President Kennedy was in the Congress for 14 years. He was a war hero. He was a man of great accomplishments and readiness to be president. Dr Martin Luther King Jr. led a movement. He was gassed, he was beaten, he was jailed. And he gave a speech that was one of the most beautifully, profoundly important ever delivered in America.

"And then he worked with President Johnson to get the civil rights laws passed because the dream couldn't be realize until finally it was legally permissible for people from all colors and backgrounds and races and ethnicities to be accepted as citizens."

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post #76 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 05:42 AM
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Well, the mixture of housing, immigration, social security and participation in primaries certainly made this a difficult read for me from post 41 (current page for my setup) on, this morning. Lots of scrolling back and forth to connect the posts and ripostes.

A barrage of salvos were launched against Fort McBear but by dawn's early light, the flag is still there. Jayhawk is to be commended for his skirmishing actions which absorbed some of the heat.

Interesting. Am I becoming a Bear groupie? I had expected to find myself in Botnst's camp. Not much from him in this section, however. Maybe that's it.

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post #77 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 05:53 AM
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...and then in the next thread I read regarding a different subject, I see this. I am conflicted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
As for our rendition history, I fully understand the desire/need to get information and I know that primary targets seem like a great justification for the practice. My main concern all along is that we are a country of laws and we either are, or are not. This is not a maybe, kinda, look the other way ethics deal. We either have to man-up and be a country of laws or we have to say that OBL won and got us to destroy the very Constitution that we have chosen, as a country to live by.
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/off-...ml#post2688944

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post #78 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
"The Law is the Law" and "the right thing is the right thing" got me thinking again about the Republican debates.

When the subject was Immigration the phrase was "the law is the law". There was no ambiguity.

Now, when it came to the discussion of Gitmo and how we handle terrorists and those who might be terrorists all that "the law is the law" and "the right thing is the right thing" got just a little fuzzy.

In an exchange between Thompson and Huckabee where Huckabee was saying that he thought the prisoners were treated too well but thought they could just as well be brought to the US, Thompson said that we wouldn't want to do that because if we brought them here they would have the right of habeas corpus.



So, the Law is the Law unless it gets in the way of what we feel is necessary and "the right thing is the right thing" as long as it is convenient for a subset of the people but not necessarily for everyone.

Do we just demand that we apply the law when it is politically convenient and other times...not so much.

So, which is it?
Post #68 sums up the current GOP view quite nicely. Of course, they couldn't see it any other way and continue to support the current administration...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #79 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Jakarta Expat View Post
Yes and until Congress actually does something the SS system can just lower the payouts right.......some seniors are eating dog food now as they cannot afford anything else

As far as action by congressmen who have made themselves rich via the system they manipulate, don't count on action until 23:59 or even 00:05 they will never eat dog food.........
Social Security was never intended to supply pre-retirement income levels. It was always a program to SUPPLEMENT personal savings after retirement. And the fact that some people have to eat dog food just speaks to their inability and/or unwillingness to plan for retirement. And I do not believe we (government) have any responsibility to bail them out--any more than we should bail out those who made bad borrowing decisions in real estate. Besides, I thought dog food was a delicacy in your part of the world...

Don't believe everything you think
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post #80 of 142 (permalink) Old 01-08-2008, 09:55 AM
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Here illegally? get on the bus. Sayonara, mofo. Get a card and come back.

B
That seems pretty rude behavior towards people we have invited to come here. We give them jobs, we rent them apartments that would be empty otherwise, we even sell them homes, and we loan them money to buy cars. They save us billions in direct labor costs, and allow employers to move health care costs from their bottom line onto our local hospitals. As a result, you couldn't get enough buses to get rid of them all. The solution is simple: go after the employers, set up quotas for employers who can prove they can not get Americans to do the job, set up a National ID system. Or learn to live with it. We've been putting them on buses for the last five decades, and it hasn't worked yet.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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