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post #161 of 170 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 05:13 AM
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WOW, did this thread get heated or not?

ERIC.

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post #162 of 170 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Zeitgeist View Post
I suspect public radio listeners are attracted to the quality of the programming, rather than any theoretical memes it throws at them.
I like it because of all the nude announcers after midnight.........
Those two posts in relation to each other are as close to a 'Twilight Zone' moment as any I've ever seen here.

Great analysis Z, you DO have the chops and...

Nicely done Robert. Very 'Z' like.

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post #163 of 170 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 06:06 AM
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Those two posts in relation to each other are as close to a 'Twilight Zone' moment as any I've ever seen here.

Great analysis Z, you DO have the chops and...

Nicely done Robert. Very 'Z' like.
Dig, Chops?

ERIC.

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"I am enclosing two tickets to the first night of my new play; bring a friend, if you have one."
- George Bernard Shaw to Winston Churchill.

"Cannot possibly attend first night, will attend second ... if there is one."
- Winston Churchill, in response.
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post #164 of 170 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 05:53 PM
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Dig, Chops?
dictionaryDictionary

chop


chop

Pronunciation: (chop), [key]
—n.
1. Usually, chops. the jaw.
2. chops,
a. the oral cavity; mouth.
b. Slang.the embouchure or technique necessary to play a wind instrument.
c. Slang.musical ability on any instrument, esp. in playing jazz or rock; technical virtuosity.


Urban Dictionary

3. Chops

guts, resilience, staying power, of other forms of fortitude.

Peter wanted to come along on the training ride, but didn't have the chops to hang with the group

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post #165 of 170 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 06:56 PM
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It matters as the programming don't go head to head and the format of say car talk and Limbaugh, while both taking calls are not the same genre so, no they are not in direct competition.

You assume with your chain that the Liberal is compelled to listen to something therefore they establish a competition between NPR and Commercial talk radio. That is not established.

Also NPR tends to not run live programming on most Public Radio stations during the Noon to 4pm Week using canned shows duing those times [many stations do local programming while others replay shows like fresh air]. That further removes NPR from any form of competitive interplay with talk radiio and a listener base.

NPR and Talk Radio are effectively two different media that both just happen to be on radio.
I don't asssume compulsion of any sort: Everybody that can adjust a radio is free to tune to whatever programming they prefer.

Are you of the opinion that NPR appeals to all segments of society equally? If that is your assumption than I can easily understand why you would argue as you do.

But if there is a market segmentation along political lines and if those on the liberal side tend to NPR and those of the other slices do not, then ALL programming competes for liberal ears with NPR and NPR does not compete as effectively for non-liberals.

B

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post #166 of 170 (permalink) Old 01-05-2008, 08:06 PM
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I don't asssume compulsion of any sort: Everybody that can adjust a radio is free to tune to whatever programming they prefer.

Are you of the opinion that NPR appeals to all segments of society equally? If that is your assumption than I can easily understand why you would argue as you do.

But if there is a market segmentation along political lines and if those on the liberal side tend to NPR and those of the other slices do not, then ALL programming competes for liberal ears with NPR and NPR does not compete as effectively for non-liberals.

B
P1, you are correct, anyone choses what they listen to.

P2, NO, that is not my opinion. NPR is a narrow slice market. It's listeners [at least according to their polls] tend to be 60/40 Left/Right. It is such a small slice in any given market that it is never given any consideration in competitive alignment by any competitors.

P3, I don't think this is a true concept. As I said before, I think NPR, Talk Radio are just two mediums that both occupy RADIO as a facility. You could broaden than to add Music as a third medium. Most listeners chose one genre or another and tend to not cross-pollinate according to an Nielson talking head at the 2006 NAB Convention.

That also tends to be the listener profile for satellite. Folks will either subscribe for music, sports, talk or news.

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post #167 of 170 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 08:24 AM
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P1, you are correct, anyone choses what they listen to.

P2, NO, that is not my opinion. NPR is a narrow slice market. It's listeners [at least according to their polls] tend to be 60/40 Left/Right. It is such a small slice in any given market that it is never given any consideration in competitive alignment by any competitors.

P3, I don't think this is a true concept. As I said before, I think NPR, Talk Radio are just two mediums that both occupy RADIO as a facility. You could broaden than to add Music as a third medium. Most listeners chose one genre or another and tend to not cross-pollinate according to an Nielson talking head at the 2006 NAB Convention.

That also tends to be the listener profile for satellite. Folks will either subscribe for music, sports, talk or news.
Good, now we're getting somewhere.

If there were no NPR, where would conservative listeners go? Probably mostly to music and some proportion to talk radio. Woudl it impact conservative talk radio's bottomline? I seriously doubt it would since conservative talk radio is huge. Adding a dumptruck of sand to the beach is negligible.

If there were no NPR, where would liberal listeners go? Probably mostly to music and some proportion to talk radio. Let's say we live in a market where Pacifica is alive, yet barely surviving. Would the small number of folks from NPR moving to Pacifica affect Pacifica's bottomline? Maybe. Why? Because the beach is small with Pacifica and a load of sand might support a little more activity.

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post #168 of 170 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 08:50 AM
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Pacifica does not present news--it presents events in a highly editorialized presentation that serves its well established mission; not unlike Faux sNews. I can't listen to Pacifica long, 'cause I'm not looking for that kind of self-reinforcement, even though I agree with nearly all of their assessments. I doubt most NPR listeners would appreciate Pacifica any more than they could stomach Faux, 'cause those offerings on not up to the quality they've come to expect. I suspect most would demand some version of the Beeb as a backup.
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post #169 of 170 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 02:44 PM
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Good, now we're getting somewhere.

If there were no NPR, where would conservative listeners go? Probably mostly to music and some proportion to talk radio. Woudl it impact conservative talk radio's bottomline? I seriously doubt it would since conservative talk radio is huge. Adding a dumptruck of sand to the beach is negligible.

If there were no NPR, where would liberal listeners go? Probably mostly to music and some proportion to talk radio. Let's say we live in a market where Pacifica is alive, yet barely surviving. Would the small number of folks from NPR moving to Pacifica affect Pacifica's bottomline? Maybe. Why? Because the beach is small with Pacifica and a load of sand might support a little more activity.
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Pacifica does not present news--it presents events in a highly editorialized presentation that serves its well established mission; not unlike Faux sNews. I can't listen to Pacifica long, 'cause I'm not looking for that kind of self-reinforcement, even though I agree with nearly all of their assessments. I doubt most NPR listeners would appreciate Pacifica any more than they could stomach Faux, 'cause those offerings on not up to the quality they've come to expect. I suspect most would demand some version of the Beeb as a backup.
I agree that Pacifica is not really a player. It is VERY small and like Z says is into canned presentations. I sometimes feel like I am listening to a very long Sally Struthers report.

I think now that Satellite Radio exists if NPR were to suddenly go away, anyone that was so inclined would just move over to BBC or CNN or one of the other choices for news.

As I have said a bunch before, folks on the right really don't listen to radio for their political information and only listen to morning/afternoon drive times as they are in the car and it is either that, Talk Radio or "Those Wacky Morning Monkeys on U69". Personally, I have an iPod for a reason.

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post #170 of 170 (permalink) Old 01-06-2008, 03:25 PM
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Pacifica does not present news--it presents events in a highly editorialized presentation that serves its well established mission; not unlike Faux sNews. I can't listen to Pacifica long, 'cause I'm not looking for that kind of self-reinforcement, even though I agree with nearly all of their assessments. I doubt most NPR listeners would appreciate Pacifica any more than they could stomach Faux, 'cause those offerings on not up to the quality they've come to expect. I suspect most would demand some version of the Beeb as a backup.
You may or may not be representative of all liberals. In fact, I'll bet you would resent being lumped with present-day liberals.

I would never presume to suggest that all people behave in a lockstep manner like so many pavlovian dogs. Rather, people behave more like an ideal gas than like a machine. But human populations, unlike an ideal gas, are not perfectly random bits careening about, either. Sometimes I wish we were as it would be reasonable in a probabilistic sense.

So if there is a population of N listening to NPR and .6N is liberal while .4N is conservative, then I would think it not unreasonable to assume that absent NPR .6N/X would go to some other radio station. The proportional distribution of X is what interests me in this discussion. I think it is safe to assume that those NPR listeners who like "Fresh Air" and "Talk of the Nation" would prefer another talk radio program than to listen to Britney Spears or Travis Tritt's latest songs. They would probably not find much benefit listening to Limbaugh. So if there were a liberal - left leaning talk show (not Pacifica, I spit on Pacifica!) then they might listen to that station.

Am I wrong? Why?

B

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