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post #91 of 173 (permalink) Old 12-26-2007, 06:24 AM
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Am I glad I live in California where we have Prop 13 and they can not increase your property tax more than 2% a year.
Yeah you may have Prop 13 but you guys in san Fran have not so friendly escaping tigers...........

Oh well if you decide to move and you are a senior you can work property taxes off............do the words unfuckingbelievable come to mind to anyone other than myself..........

Plan Would Let Seniors Work to Pay Taxes
Plan Would Let Seniors Work to Pay Taxes
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post #92 of 173 (permalink) Old 12-26-2007, 12:05 PM
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See bot's post above...
I did. The result is the same. The system is still gamed and is still no longer a free market economy.

Can't have it both ways.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #93 of 173 (permalink) Old 12-26-2007, 12:12 PM
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I did. The result is the same. The system is still gamed and is still no longer a free market economy.

Can't have it both ways.
"Both ways"? I don't understand how that connects to what I wrote. But just it case it does, allow me to clarify and shorten what I wrote.

State security is to liberty what regulation is to free market. In both instances government intervention is good to some degree but quickly becomes burdensome and onerous if the gov injects itself to liberally. In all instances of which I am aware a closed economic system fails to compete with an open system just as liberal states usually survive contests with totalitarian states. I'm sure there are exceptions to these generalizations. Comparing this current century with any century in human history will most likely result in acknowledgment that markets and people are more free now than ever before.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama

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post #94 of 173 (permalink) Old 12-26-2007, 12:13 PM
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Two interesting slices. Both cover the same period yet their reporting is over 200% different on the same general data.

As we talked earlier, we are going to have to wait until all the chits are in to see the season.

And the 400 pound gorilla is how much is put on credit cards that DON'T get paid off when the bill comes due.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #95 of 173 (permalink) Old 12-26-2007, 12:18 PM
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Two interesting slices. Both cover the same period yet their reporting is over 200% different on the same general data.

As we talked earlier, we are going to have to wait until all the chits are in to see the season.

And the 400 pound gorilla is how much is put on credit cards that DON'T get paid off when the bill comes due.
Yes.

How would you restructure the tax system and gov expenditures to reward saving and paying-down personal debt?

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #96 of 173 (permalink) Old 12-26-2007, 12:21 PM
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Oh Jay, here are a couple of well know and well respected people who need to talk too...........

Crisis may make 1929 look a 'walk in the park'

As central banks continue to splash their cash over the system, so far to little effect, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard argues things are rapidly spiralling out of their control

Twenty billion dollars here, $20bn there, and a lush half-trillion from the European Central Bank at give-away rates for Christmas. Buckets of liquidity are being splashed over the North Atlantic banking system, so far with meagre or fleeting effects.

As the credit paralysis stretches through its fifth month, a chorus of economists has begun to warn that the world's central banks are fighting the wrong war, and perhaps risk a policy error of epochal proportions.

"Liquidity doesn't do anything in this situation," says Anna Schwartz, the doyenne of US monetarism and life-time student (with Milton Friedman) of the Great Depression.

"It cannot deal with the underlying fear that lots of firms are going bankrupt. The banks and the hedge funds have not fully acknowledged who is in trouble. That is the critical issue," she adds.

Lenders are hoarding the cash, shunning peers as if all were sub-prime lepers. Spreads on three-month Euribor and Libor - the interbank rates used to price contracts and Club Med mortgages - are stuck at 80 basis points even after the latest blitz. The monetary screw has tightened by default.

York professor Peter Spencer, chief economist for the ITEM Club, says the global authorities have just weeks to get this right, or trigger disaster.


"The central banks are rapidly losing control. By not cutting interest rates nearly far enough or fast enough, they are allowing the money markets to dictate policy. We are long past worrying about moral hazard," he says.

"They still have another couple of months before this starts imploding. Things are very unstable and can move incredibly fast. I don't think the central banks are going to make a major policy error, but if they do, this could make 1929 look like a walk in the park," he adds.

The Bank of England knows the risk. Markets director Paul Tucker says the crisis has moved beyond the collapse of mortgage securities, and is now eating into the bedrock of banking capital. "We must try to avoid the vicious circle in which tighter liquidity conditions, lower asset values, impaired capital resources, reduced credit supply, and slower aggregate demand feed back on each other," he says.

New York's Federal Reserve chief Tim Geithner echoed the words, warning of an "adverse self-reinforcing dynamic", banker-speak for a downward spiral. The Fed has broken decades of practice by inviting all US depositary banks to its lending window, bringing dodgy mortgage securities as collateral.

Quietly, insiders are perusing an obscure paper by Fed staffers David Small and Jim Clouse. It explores what can be done under the Federal Reserve Act when all else fails.

Section 13 (3) allows the Fed to take emergency action when banks become "unwilling or very reluctant to provide credit". A vote by five governors can - in "exigent circumstances" - authorise the bank to lend money to anybody, and take upon itself the credit risk. This clause has not been evoked since the Slump.

Yet still the central banks shrink from seriously grasping the rate-cut nettle. Understandably so. They are caught between the Scylla of the debt crunch and the Charybdis of inflation. It is not yet certain which is the more powerful force.

America's headline CPI screamed to 4.3 per cent in November. This may be a rogue figure, the tail effects of an oil, commodity, and food price spike. If so, the Fed missed its chance months ago to prepare the markets for such a case. It is now stymied.

This has eerie echoes of Japan in late-1990, when inflation rose to 4 per cent on a mini price-surge across Asia. As the Bank of Japan fretted about an inflation scare, the country's financial system tipped into the abyss.

Above is onyl Page 1
Crisis may make 1929 look a 'walk in the park' - Telegraph

Page 2 and 3 are located at this link
Crisis may make 1929 look a 'walk in the park' - Telegraph
I was going to post this up on Monday but frankly it is one of the scariest articles I have read in quite a while and decided not to. It is pretty much a summary of what I have been talking about for the past 18 months or so. On one of the other boards that I am on [nearly all econ guys] we talked about this a week or so ago and it is pretty much at the top of everyone's mind. The convergence of the Sub-prime issues with the weak Dollar and the National Debt and Boomer retirement and Credit Card debt is either at or very near a tipping point that is just plain ugly.

For myself, I am looking for solid safehavens for monies in the next 12 months because I just don't see addressing the risks involved in going down the same road we have been on this past several years. Four of us are getting together next Wednesday to try and sort through it.

READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE to understand the concerns.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #97 of 173 (permalink) Old 12-26-2007, 12:47 PM Thread Starter
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I did. The result is the same. The system is still gamed and is still no longer a free market economy.

Can't have it both ways.
What about AC/DC?

Don't believe everything you think
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post #98 of 173 (permalink) Old 12-26-2007, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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"Both ways"? I don't understand how that connects to what I wrote. But just it case it does, allow me to clarify and shorten what I wrote.

State security is to liberty what regulation is to free market. In both instances government intervention is good to some degree but quickly becomes burdensome and onerous if the gov injects itself to liberally. In all instances of which I am aware a closed economic system fails to compete with an open system just as liberal states usually survive contests with totalitarian states. I'm sure there are exceptions to these generalizations. Comparing this current century with any century in human history will most likely result in acknowledgment that markets and people are more free now than ever before.

B
I'm sure there are exceptions too, but that dichotomy is not an over-generalization and is at the heart of my political philosophy chart:
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Don't believe everything you think
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post #99 of 173 (permalink) Old 12-26-2007, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Two interesting slices. Both cover the same period yet their reporting is over 200% different on the same general data.

As we talked earlier, we are going to have to wait until all the chits are in to see the season.

And the 400 pound gorilla is how much is put on credit cards that DON'T get paid off when the bill comes due.
I agree! I just happened upon those two articles and thought I'd share. We will resume this discussion on February 1, 2008...

Don't believe everything you think
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post #100 of 173 (permalink) Old 12-26-2007, 01:06 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
I was going to post this up on Monday but frankly it is one of the scariest articles I have read in quite a while and decided not to. It is pretty much a summary of what I have been talking about for the past 18 months or so. On one of the other boards that I am on [nearly all econ guys] we talked about this a week or so ago and it is pretty much at the top of everyone's mind. The convergence of the Sub-prime issues with the weak Dollar and the National Debt and Boomer retirement and Credit Card debt is either at or very near a tipping point that is just plain ugly.

For myself, I am looking for solid safehavens for monies in the next 12 months because I just don't see addressing the risks involved in going down the same road we have been on this past several years. Four of us are getting together next Wednesday to try and sort through it.

READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE to understand the concerns.
The concerns are easy to understand, but overblown and contraindicated (i.e., one offsets the other) in many cases. IMO.

The stock market, though on a looong Bull run, is where you should keep most of your money. I predict that 2008 will be another UP year, and moving everything into fixed assets and/or commodities would be a big mistake! The market will not go straight up forever (we just had a 10% sell-off) but making decisions by looking only at the negatives is a recipe for disaster--financially speaking.

Don't believe everything you think
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