New CAFE Standards Signed into Law - Page 6 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #51 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-22-2007, 01:05 PM
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As a policy analyst, I have to agree with your assertion that this and many issues require federal standards (see: universal health insurance), but as a citizen, I also want government to work in the public interest. In the absence of federal leadership, the states were forced to step up as laboratories of democracy and fill the void. The feds can't continue to act as a roadblock to this issue--they have to finally lead, follow or get the fuck out of the way. This is a national priority with global implications
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post #52 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-22-2007, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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As a policy analyst, I have to agree with your assertion that this and many issues require federal standards (see: universal health insurance), but as a citizen, I also want government to work in the public interest. In the absence of federal leadership, the states were forced to step up as laboratories of democracy and fill the void. The feds can't continue to act as a roadblock to this issue--they have to finally lead, follow or get the fuck out of the way. This is a national priority with global implications
I agree completely with that.

I have been hoping that they would raise the CAFE standards for the past 8 years and tighten the emissions standards [although not to California standards]. Now that there is an Energy Bill in law that is step ONE. I think if folks in California will hold on til after 08 then an addition to that bill will bring National standards to a place that will incorporate some of the CARB standards yet take into account that not everywhere is like California.

My main support of the EPA ruling is that is provides the Auto industry with one less excuse and they can get moving forward on measurable changes that will work for everyone. It is not that I am suddenly a cheerleader for the EPA.

Now if DOT will finally realize that Euro lights and windshields are just as safe as those in the US and drop some of the import restrictions on Euro cars [many from GM and Ford] things will move forward even quicker. That's the next target.

McBear,
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post #53 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-22-2007, 09:30 PM
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McBear,

If your so intent on everyone having to buy cars that adhear to the new EPA guidlines, why don't you do the admirable thing and sell all of your gas guzzling, smog producing ,EPA nightmares and drive what you want everyone else to drive??

My Car WOO HOO...... Now SOLD
New car.... 2001 Jaguar XJR!!!!

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

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post #54 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2007, 07:24 AM
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In the past oil was traded on a long term contract basis that was not subject to the fluctuations of either the daily news or computerized commodities trading that exacerbates fluctuation with programed buying/selling. [While this is a great "feature" if you are a commodities broker it plays havoc with the energy pipeline for the 239,999,000 Americans who are not].

What has happened is the Commodities market has computerized to where it is very beneficial to the brokers who slice off each trade [much like the Stock Market] but the Commodities chain is not as able to accept the fluctuations that computerization provides. While brokers do well, downstream is hit with higher costs due to enhanced churn in the market. The difference between this and Stock Market churn is that nearly everyone playing the stock market is doing so of their own free will. With the commodities market, broker churn causes EVERYONE to pay higher prices for no good reason.
Oh that's a relief. For a second there I thought you were going to say that oil is not a commodity.

I agree with you: The government should step in because the government has a demonstrated track record of efficiency.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

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post #55 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2007, 08:18 AM
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^ You'll laugh, but I've basically argued against oil as a commodity for a number of reasons - primarily, because it has qualities unique among any other form of commodity being traded daily. That being, oil has a monopoly on the transportation sector. There is no viable alternative to oil-based products for air travel, train, truck, and passenger travel. It's nothing to take lightly; if every working American was no longer able to get to their offices & do their jobs, we'd shut down in a moment.

The entire global economy is - right or wrong - dependent upon products derived from crude oil, in that without vast quantities of that resource, it will come to a grinding halt. No such thing will happen if we're suddenly unable to find more gold, silver, frozen concentrated orange juice, pork bellies, wheat, soy, cattle, sugar, etc.

That's why I think it's not a commodity. I think it should fetch what the market will bear, but that we do too good a job of demonstrating that figure by way of electronically trading it. Perhaps it should be illegal to sell crude oil unless you've produced it from the ground. Same with gasoline - eliminate middle men altogether. Maybe not...what do I know.
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post #56 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2007, 12:58 PM Thread Starter
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McBear,

If your so intent on everyone having to buy cars that adhear to the new EPA guidlines, why don't you do the admirable thing and sell all of your gas guzzling, smog producing ,EPA nightmares and drive what you want everyone else to drive??
Well, my daily drivers are a BMW 318is [wife's daily driver 22/30] and mine is either the 300E or the newer [and very clean] S500 which gets 25hwy. The hot rods don't get 3500 miles between the 4 of them over a year [the SL went 329 in 07 which was a shame] much for that very reason as I don't like 15 MPG.

Also, I put down less of a footprint as my drivers are always in a very high state of tune, can pass even the most stringent of emission tests AND, because I only buy older cars [the S500 being the exception] my cars have not generated any manufacturing pollution and its associated environmental costs in 15 years. It is rolling recycling.

Also, I have already started moving one of the 500Es from a poor gas mileage 5L to a 3L twin turbo six speed with better horsepower, torque and 24/33 mileage [in a 3800# car]. Wifie is looking at a Smart as soon as the dealer starts getting them in which will move her into the 40s now, not in 2020.

By 2012 I will be at the 2020 CAFE average, mostly with the cars I currently have [many with different power plants. That has been what has been occupying my business and brain for the past year and why I changed the configuration of the business in the fall. Thanks for asking.

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post #57 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2007, 06:33 PM
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Thanks for sharing.

My Car WOO HOO...... Now SOLD
New car.... 2001 Jaguar XJR!!!!

When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
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post #58 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2007, 08:42 PM
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^ You'll laugh, but I've basically argued against oil as a commodity for a number of reasons - primarily, because it has qualities unique among any other form of commodity being traded daily. That being, oil has a monopoly on the transportation sector. There is no viable alternative to oil-based products for air travel, train, truck, and passenger travel. It's nothing to take lightly; if every working American was no longer able to get to their offices & do their jobs, we'd shut down in a moment.

The entire global economy is - right or wrong - dependent upon products derived from crude oil, in that without vast quantities of that resource, it will come to a grinding halt. No such thing will happen if we're suddenly unable to find more gold, silver, frozen concentrated orange juice, pork bellies, wheat, soy, cattle, sugar, etc.

That's why I think it's not a commodity. I think it should fetch what the market will bear, but that we do too good a job of demonstrating that figure by way of electronically trading it. Perhaps it should be illegal to sell crude oil unless you've produced it from the ground. Same with gasoline - eliminate middle men altogether. Maybe not...what do I know.
Air is necessary for transportation, too. Yet people sell air as a commodity. Water is necessary for transportation, .... Steel is necessary for transportation, .... Etc.

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #59 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2007, 09:01 PM Thread Starter
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Air is necessary for transportation, too. Yet people sell air as a commodity. Water is necessary for transportation, .... Steel is necessary for transportation, .... Etc.
Somehow I don't recall seeing water on anyone's commodity trading floor [unless it was a melted ice cube].

And when I did my stint at Square D we bought steel straight from either suppliers or foundries, on long term contracts without having to make projections based on market fluctuations.

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post #60 of 66 (permalink) Old 12-23-2007, 09:04 PM
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Somehow I don't recall seeing water on anyone's commodity trading floor [unless it was a melted ice cube].

And when I did my stint at Square D we bought steel straight from either suppliers or foundries, on long term contracts without having to make projections based on market fluctuations.
Whether or not an item is traded on a commodity floor is not what determines whether an item is a commodity.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

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