Drive-by cut-n-paste of a long article: He's baaa-aa-aack! - Page 12 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #111 of 264 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 06:51 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
Allow me to add that mcbear's criticism of Rummy may not be entirely fair. I for one, do not believe for one minute that Rumsfeld was straying too far from the plans and instructions of our Sec. of Defense under Desert Storm, who seemed to be exercising a great deal of control over the entire Iraq fiasco from day one.
Very true. Being led by VP Strangelove. Now THAT'S a Defense.

So we just move the argument up one level. Same argument, different stooge.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #112 of 264 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 95 E300
Location: Inside my head
Posts: 36,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
I'm at a loss, here. I don't think you guys can separate your revulsion of the policies from an analysis of the people.

For example, Albert Spier was a bright man. Probably far brighter than anybody whom he worked for. Does that mean that I approve of Spier or his war efforts? I hope you don't think so.

The same goes for any current, past, or future American politician. Take Jimmy Carter. one doesn't get through the Naval Academy in nuclear engineering by being mediocre. Mr Carter was once (and probably still is) a brilliant man. Does that assessment mean that I approve of Mr Carter's politics? Ever? I hope you don't think so.

President Clinton ... etc.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
Botnst is offline  
post #113 of 264 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 07:06 PM
Administratoris Emeritus
 
GeeS's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2021 SL770
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 44,915
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Very true. Being led by VP Strangelove. Now THAT'S a Defense.

So we just move the argument up one level. Same argument, different stooge.
True, but only if we accept as fact that his true goals are/were the same as those stated. I for one, just don't believe that Cheney is a moron. Quite the opposite, I think it far more likely that he essentially hoodwinked America.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
GeeS is offline  
post #114 of 264 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 95 E300
Location: Inside my head
Posts: 36,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 392 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
True, but only if we accept as fact that his true goals are/were the same as those stated. I for one, just don't believe that Cheney is a moron. Quite the opposite, I think it far more likely that he essentially hoodwinked America.
Now we're on the same page, though we differ as to interpretation of events.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thatís what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
Botnst is offline  
post #115 of 264 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 07:13 PM
Administratoris Emeritus
 
GeeS's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2021 SL770
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 44,915
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
^ And the same applies to Ms. Rice. We cannot judge her intelligence based solely upon job performance, since we aren't close enough to her to know how much or which portions of that performance should be ascribed to following orders.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
GeeS is offline  
post #116 of 264 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 09:04 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
True, but only if we accept as fact that his true goals are/were the same as those stated. I for one, just don't believe that Cheney is a moron. Quite the opposite, I think it far more likely that he essentially hoodwinked America.
Cheney is not a moron, nor is Rummy. The problem with both is that they let their ego and hubris in on too much of the planning and execution phases of the Iraq project.

And what were the "true goals"? Those have changed so often since 2002. If the actual goal was simply an occupation of, and permanent presence in Iraq then maybe. But if that were the case, why the halfwitted meanderings that was the first four years of the invasion. If we concede that the actual plan fell into place we have to assume a "reasoned" plan was in place to get to this point and the circuitous route taken lacks all reason.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #117 of 264 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 09:07 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
^ And the same applies to Ms. Rice. We cannot judge her intelligence based solely upon job performance, since we aren't close enough to her to know how much or which portions of that performance should be ascribed to following orders.
As I said before, she is very smart. But very smart does not equate to very good. And as pointed out, we don't know what leash she has had. What we do know is that she was trained for a philosophy of statesmanship that is not as useful now as it was in the 1980s and she has not "shown" a good adaptation. Is that her skillset or her marching orders from above?

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #118 of 264 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 09:08 PM
~BANNED~
 
Jakarta Expat's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2006
Vehicle: PM me to Join the Expat Muslims for Obama Club........
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Posts: 17,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Cheney is not a moron, nor is Rummy. The problem with both is that they let their ego and hubris in on too much of the planning and execution phases of the Iraq project.

And what were the "true goals"? Those have changed so often since 2002. If the actual goal was simply an occupation of, and permanent presence in Iraq then maybe. But if that were the case, why the halfwitted meanderings that was the first four years of the invasion. If we concede that the actual plan fell into place we have to assume a "reasoned" plan was in place to get to this point and the circuitous route taken lacks all reason.

Well, business plans do change from year to year, no difference in this case...........
Jakarta Expat is offline  
post #119 of 264 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 09:14 PM
Administratoris Emeritus
 
GeeS's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2021 SL770
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 44,915
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Cheney is not a moron, nor is Rummy. The problem with both is that they let their ego and hubris in on too much of the planning and execution phases of the Iraq project.

And what were the "true goals"? Those have changed so often since 2002. If the actual goal was simply an occupation of, and permanent presence in Iraq then maybe. But if that were the case, why the halfwitted meanderings that was the first four years of the invasion. If we concede that the actual plan fell into place we have to assume a "reasoned" plan was in place to get to this point and the circuitous route taken lacks all reason.
Yes, I believe that was the goal all along. Why the "halfwitted meanderings"? For some very good reasons, including the advantages sought by creating instability in the region, buying time to build the physical infrastructure required to accommodate a permanent presence, and the creation of the illusion that a permanent presence is required to address the instability we created. Waltzing in with 400K troops and efficiently securing the region in short order does nothing to further this goal.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
GeeS is offline  
post #120 of 264 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 09:21 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
Most folks think that Intelligence is a combination of learned, genetic and situational traits. In that, Rice has the intelligence to do very well but not necessarily at the level she was placed [a political peter principle?]. The training for the SecState skills was just an accident of timing. She would have been better suited in Reagan's White House than Bushie. She does not "appear" to have the facility to adapt and improvise. I "" that because obviously have not seen her work and only go on what results we see and fully understand that she answers to Bush so it is possible that she is not given unbridled run to show her stuff.

And as for age slowing our intelligence, maybe but it is usually compensated with experience which makes up any deficit.
I think you hinted at Rummy's basic problem earlier. He is convinced he is smarter and so many steps ahead of anyone else, demonstrating that becomes one of his priorities. As a result he was not about to hire anyone he thought was smarter than he thought he was, and, with no experience leading people who he believed could challenge his capabilities, he was further handicapped by being totally unable to bring any outside people or ideas into his thought processes.

Rice is an enigma. I don't understand, based on her performance, how she was selected for a role as substantial as Secretary of State. Maybe the
Bush team was so engulfed in addressing their string of blunders - kind of like they were too tied up trying to manipulate the public relations response to the first, muffed opportunity to act to correct a situation, to actually do something to fix the problem before they were confronted with some cascading consequential challenges. Responses to explain their failures that suggest the public should hold them to very low standards, kind of like the lowest common denominator of the general public with declarations like "no one could have known" in response to the levees being overcome by Katrina's winds and surges just are not good for establishing her credentials for being above average in any measure.

Jim
JimSmith is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    Ml320 Brake Pad Paste or Anti Squeak Paste hangon W163 M-Class 1 09-07-2006 11:25 AM
    Where do they come from? NY Times article (long, only 1/4 here) Botnst Off-Topic 4 08-01-2005 10:35 AM
    At long last, the front axle service article is posted at ClubGwagen.com Hipine G-Class 12 08-29-2003 08:06 AM
    Recent article from local paper on Mercedes' convertibles (long) Joe Pittsburgh R170 SLK-Class 1 12-29-2001 11:17 AM
    O.T. Here's a article from the Taipei news via todays Washington Times...(long) Bruce R. - - D.C . R170 SLK-Class 2 04-27-2001 10:09 AM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome