U.S. report: Iran stopped nuclear weapons work in 2003 - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #61 of 105 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 09:36 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBenz94 View Post
This is interesting, political motivations????

NIE: An Abrupt About-Face

As many recognize, the latest NIE on Iran’s nuclear weapons program directly contradicts what the U.S. Intelligence Community was saying just two years previously. And it appears that this about-face was very recent. How recent?

Consider that on July 11, 2007, roughly four or so months prior to the most recent NIE’s publication, Deputy Director of Analysis Thomas Fingar gave the following testimony before the House Armed Services Committee (emphasis added):

Iran and North Korea are the states of most concern to us. The United States’ concerns about Iran are shared by many nations, including many of Iran’s neighbors. Iran is continuing to pursue uranium enrichment and has shown more interest in protracting negotiations and working to delay and diminish the impact of UNSC sanctions than in reaching an acceptable diplomatic solution. We assess that Tehran is determined to develop nuclear weapons--despite its international obligations and international pressure. This is a grave concern to the other countries in the region whose security would be threatened should Iran acquire nuclear weapons.
This paragraph appeared under the subheading: "Iran Assessed As Determined to Develop Nuclear Weapons." And the entirety of Fingar’s 22-page testimony was labeled "Information as of July 11, 2007." No part of it is consistent with the latest NIE, in which our spooks tell us Iran suspended its covert nuclear weapons program in 2003 "primarily in response to international pressure" and they "do not know whether (Iran) currently intends to develop nuclear weapons."
The inconsistencies are more troubling when we realize that, according to the Wall Street Journal, Thomas Fingar is one of the three officials who were responsible for crafting the latest NIE. The Journal cites "an intelligence source" as describing Fingar and his two colleagues as "hyper-partisan anti-Bush officials." (The New York Sun drew attention to one of Fingar’s colleagues yesterday.)
So, if it is true that Dr. Fingar played a leading role in crafting this latest NIE, then we are left with serious questions:
  • Why did your opinion change so drastically in just four months time?
  • Is the new intelligence or analysis really that good? Is it good enough to overturn your previous assessments? Or, has it never really been good enough to make a definitive assessment at all?
  • Did your political or ideological leanings, or your policy preferences, or those of your colleagues, influence your opinion in any way?
Many in the mainstream press have been willing to cite this latest NIE unquestioningly. Perhaps they should start asking some pointed questions. (Don’t hold your breath.)



Posted by Thomas Joscelyn on December 5, 2007 12:01 PM | Permalink

Email the article NIE: An Abrupt About-Face to a friend:

The Weekly Standard

The NY Sun editorial you cite as a source had me rolling on the floor, it was so stupid. I loved this paragraph:

"The proper way to read this report is through the lens of the long struggle the professional intelligence community has been waging against the elected civilian administration in Washington. They have opposed President Bush on nearly every major policy decision. They were against the Iraqi National Congress. They were against elections in Iraq. They were against I. Lewis Libby. They are against a tough line on Iran."

The Iraqi National Congress are the people who fed us tons of bullshit on WMDs while assuring us we would be "welcomed as liberators" and their leader Chalabi is a piece of worm shit. The elections were a stupid idea, it was the equivalent of holding elections during the Battle of the Bulge, and has delivered the country to Iran because the Sunnis refused to participate. But the last one, "They were against I. Lewis Libby" had me screaming with laughter. Hey dude, they got my vote.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
FeelTheLove is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 105 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 09:43 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk View Post
Many democrats w/in the Bush administration have been very good at leaking whatever might make the President look bad whenever they wish. It is more than incredible that this Fingar character could not have found a way to do what many Bushbasher's w/in the admin. have done dozens of times in the past (leak the information to the media) w/out publicly outing himself as an incompetent fool.

Sorry smitty! But your pathetic attempt to try and turn this back on the President is patently transparent.
Fuck your president.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
FeelTheLove is offline  
post #63 of 105 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 09:43 AM Thread Starter
Administratoris Emeritus
 
GeeS's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2021 SL770
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 44,915
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Quote:
Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
^ It's hard to get anything accomplished, even when you may be right, if your credibility has evaporated. That fact, in and of itself, is enough of a reason to steadfastly oppose a slide in the measure we use to evaluate presidential candidates.

Situations like ours today (where candidates are by and large simply power & attention hungry celebrities sans-talent, and where the populace is disinclined to give a shit) cause me to question whether or not our form of government is viable long-term.

Maybe, just maybe, people need fewer important but intangible decisions in their lives. I mean, you shouldn't need to convince people of the importance of electing quality people to government. It shouldn't be tough to convince someone of good moral fiber to run for elected office. There shouldn't be systems in place that connect corporations/special interests to legislators, with money. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to see where this all fails, and to just fucking fix it.

Ugh.
Our's is probably about the worst example of republican democracy on the planet. We should and could learn from any number of countries, including our neighbors to the north.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
GeeS is offline  
post #64 of 105 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 09:43 AM
DP
Moderator
 
DP's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 190E, 400E, SLK350
Location: Chesapeak Bay
Posts: 64,125
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
The intelligence community was relying on idiots like Chalabi and reports made up by Israel too. We had no people on the ground because we trusted all of those "experts". To this day we still don't have an intelligence community worth a grain of salt. Now why is that?
DP is offline  
post #65 of 105 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 09:47 AM Thread Starter
Administratoris Emeritus
 
GeeS's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 2021 SL770
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 44,915
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
(Thread Starter)
Chalabi was just doing his part for the Bush administration, like plenty of other folks.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
GeeS is offline  
post #66 of 105 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 09:49 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
FeelTheLove's Avatar
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 83 Astral Silver 280 SL
Location: Planet Houston
Posts: 28,829
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
^ It's hard to get anything accomplished, even when you may be right, if your credibility has evaporated. That fact, in and of itself, is enough of a reason to steadfastly oppose a slide in the measure we use to evaluate presidential candidates.

Situations like ours today (where candidates are by and large simply power & attention hungry celebrities sans-talent, and where the populace is disinclined to give a shit) cause me to question whether or not our form of government is viable long-term.

Maybe, just maybe, people need fewer important but intangible decisions in their lives. I mean, you shouldn't need to convince people of the importance of electing quality people to government. It shouldn't be tough to convince someone of good moral fiber to run for elected office. There shouldn't be systems in place that connect corporations/special interests to legislators, with money. It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to see where this all fails, and to just fucking fix it.

Ugh.
The fix is simple: public financing of federal campaigns for office.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
FeelTheLove is offline  
post #67 of 105 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 09:53 AM
Surely A Large Human
 
Qubes's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jun 2006
Vehicle: '08 C219
Location: Between Earth and Mars
Posts: 34,252
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
^ Seems to work well in France, or at least the "equal time" component of that. They have more parties than you can shake a stick at.
Qubes is online now  
post #68 of 105 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 09:53 AM
~BANNED~
 
Jakarta Expat's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2006
Vehicle: PM me to Join the Expat Muslims for Obama Club........
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
Posts: 17,697
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprof View Post
To this day we still don't have an intelligence community worth a grain of salt. Now why is that?
Because Israel does not want us too?
Jakarta Expat is offline  
post #69 of 105 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 10:15 AM
Surely A Large Human
 
Qubes's Avatar
 
Date registered: Jun 2006
Vehicle: '08 C219
Location: Between Earth and Mars
Posts: 34,252
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
Our's is probably about the worst example of republican democracy on the planet. We should and could learn from any number of countries, including our neighbors to the north.
Rahm Emanuel agrees with my premise....I'm still trying to decide what that means, so any help there is appreciated.
“As an amateur student of constitutional history and as a member of Congress, I have come to the conclusion that the Senate was a historic mistake,” said Representative Rahm Emanuel of Illinois, the No. 4 Democrat.
That was from Robert's post on the NYT 'Cartwheels' article, which I thought was very telling.
...And for some freshman lawmakers, who came to Washington hoping to do big things for the American people, the late-session circus has been disconcerting.

“What’s frustrating to me and, I think, most of the freshman members, if not all of them, is that partisan strategy seems to be more important than the policy considerations at stake,” said Representative John Yarmuth, Democrat of Kentucky. “We all came here with mandates to change the country.”

Mr. Yarmuth said that he and many other House Democrats wanted their Senate colleagues to force Republicans to spend hours filibustering various bills, to illustrate for constituents why legislation is stalling.

Democrats blame Republican obstruction. “They are filibustering as if they are on steroids,” Mr. Reid said.

Republicans say the Democrats are to blame, for pursuing a partisan agenda. They also say Democrats call for votes to end filibusters that do not exist and, in some cases, seek to end debate on bills before debate has started.

Things are so bad between Mr. Reid and Senator Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, the Republican leader, that in some cases they even fight about whether they are fighting about something.

On Wednesday, Mr. Reid insisted that the Senate could not come into session until noon because Republicans would have used an earlier start to halt efforts to finalize a bill on climate change.

Mr. McConnell maintained Republicans had no such plan. “I think maybe the leader was anticipating an objection that did in fact not exist,” he said. Seizing a chance to prove Mr. Reid wrong, he offered a motion allowing work on the bill to continue.
That story is telling, but it's getting old. There's no denying that this crop of Democrats leading the charge (Pelosi et al) are monkeys fucking a football. They could ruin an anvil with their bare hands. Incompetence and ineptitude have many faces.

Last edited by Qubes; 12-07-2007 at 10:17 AM.
Qubes is online now  
post #70 of 105 (permalink) Old 12-07-2007, 10:27 AM
DP
Moderator
 
DP's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Vehicle: 190E, 400E, SLK350
Location: Chesapeak Bay
Posts: 64,125
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Quoted: 991 Post(s)
Lifetime Premium Member
Israel warns Iran to co-operate or pay price

Israel warns Iran to co-operate or pay price - World - theage.com.au

"There needs to be full verification of what is happening in Iran," Mr Prosor said. "In Israel, there is a belief that the Iranians are continuing with their nuclear weapons program."

hmmm how about we are also allowed to visit Dimona? Have we not paid for that?
DP is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    Atomic Agency Concludes Iran Is Stepping Up Nuclear Work Jakarta Expat Off-Topic 0 05-15-2007 05:22 AM
    Large Weapons Cache found in Iraq, traceable to Iran Qubes Off-Topic 54 02-27-2007 03:58 PM
    Iran defiant on nuclear programme. deathrattle Off-Topic 9 02-26-2007 05:22 AM
    Iran Bars 38 U. N. Nuclear Inspectors Jakarta Expat Off-Topic 0 01-22-2007 01:14 PM
    Iran nuclear behavior prediction maine_coon Off-Topic 52 09-01-2006 06:41 PM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome