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post #41 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-01-2007, 05:03 AM
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What is clear is your naivity in thinking that by not being involved,you will be spared the wrath of terrorists. And you also likely believe that Britains' being targeted is solely due to participation in the Middle East via Bush. While I agree with you it is a contributing factor, the Middle Eastern people still hold grudges against the UK due to the UK's poorly-judged Middle East conduct long before Bush or Blair were on the scene.You end your comment with "All clear now?". Well let me respond with clarity too; If you are not of Islam, YOU are fair game. Bush & Blair...and Bin Laden... leaving the scene does not absolve you from being a non-believer, deserving of liquidation in bin ladens' eyes (or in the eyes of his followers).
The 7/7 terrorists left video messages explaining exactly why they were motivated to become suicide bombers. Did you miss that fact?
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post #42 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-01-2007, 09:05 AM
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Yes and what are the faults of those who have died on 9/11 and elsewhere in the world in the name of terrorism based on bin ladens religious insanity?

The question works both ways...
The first statement is true but the second is out off whack. It doesn't work both ways. We had many opportunities to right the situation in the ME but we chose not to due to pressures from war mongers that do not see an advantage in having real peace in the Middle East. We could have killed their excuse and made their argument worthless have we supported the UN's resolution to let the Palestinians have a voice or live like half human beings. The problem is that we allowed a bunch of criminals that we trained to kill Russians in Afghanistan to turn on us and use our weak standing and non-existent good faith attempt at a ME resolution to come and bite us in the ass. So in a way we did not help the situation; but is it all our fault? No! That's because anyone can hold a grudge on us for whatever reason but by being a "super power" it is our duty to act responsibly and do what's right rather than cater to special interest thus allowing hatred to fester about our action (or inactions). Oh and having a viable, strong and intelligent intelligence agency could have gone a long way in preventing 911 and of course developing real socio political analysis of the ME to understand how to handle that part of the world. At the present time we are as ignorant of that region as any other time before 911, so can we prevent another 911? Time will tell but war is not a solution, we tried that during the crusades and those people remember it it as if it was yesterday and as if they lived it. Just walk the streets of Jerusalem once in your life and you will understand.
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post #43 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-01-2007, 09:09 AM
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The first statement is true but the second is out off whack.......

Bit early to be 'whacking off' isn't it?
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post #44 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-01-2007, 11:07 AM
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Bit early to be 'whacking off' isn't it?
The day that I will need Viagra then I will time and schedule my wanking sessions but until then whack off wank on
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post #45 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-01-2007, 11:14 AM
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The day that I will need Viagra then I will time and schedule my wanking sessions but until then whack off wank on

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post #46 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-01-2007, 04:24 PM
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The first statement is true but the second is out off whack. It doesn't work both ways. We had many opportunities to right the situation in the ME but we chose not to due to pressures from war mongers that do not see an advantage in having real peace in the Middle East. We could have killed their excuse and made their argument worthless have we supported the UN's resolution to let the Palestinians have a voice or live like half human beings. The problem is that we allowed a bunch of criminals that we trained to kill Russians in Afghanistan to turn on us and use our weak standing and non-existent good faith attempt at a ME resolution to come and bite us in the ass. So in a way we did not help the situation; but is it all our fault? No! That's because anyone can hold a grudge on us for whatever reason but by being a "super power" it is our duty to act responsibly and do what's right rather than cater to special interest thus allowing hatred to fester about our action (or inactions). Oh and having a viable, strong and intelligent intelligence agency could have gone a long way in preventing 911 and of course developing real socio political analysis of the ME to understand how to handle that part of the world. At the present time we are as ignorant of that region as any other time before 911, so can we prevent another 911? Time will tell but war is not a solution, we tried that during the crusades and those people remember it it as if it was yesterday and as if they lived it. Just walk the streets of Jerusalem once in your life and you will understand.
Crusades? Lets talk facts.I find it laughable that Middle Eastern residents use the "crusades" as reason to grudge the West.And here you are, in 2007, saying I should accept this bizarre,ancient grudge with understanding? So you think I had better accept as valid the grudges of morons based on a war which ended 800 years ago? No way.We won't go forward accepting & validating such long-standing transgressions. In fact the West has gone forward BECAUSE we aren't shackled by passing the hatred of ancient wrongs from one generation to the next (a trait all too evident elsewhere in the Middle east). Applying their unforgiving reasoning, I could justify the West's anger towards the Middle east for 9/11 for the NEXT 800 years! Final note on the Middle East and specifically the "crusades" rant which is Bin Ladens' song (as it is yours too judging by your post). AFTER the crusades were long over, it was in fact the Islamic powers that invaded Europe, and on numerous occassions, as far west as Vienna,Austria (or does that qualify as "irrelevant" in your mind?). European history 1200-1550 clearly shows that it was the Europeans who were "invaded" by islamists. So why is it "justifiable" for the Middle east to use the crusades as reason to feel wronged yet Europeans cannot say boo about their being invaded by the Middle East? So I've 0 interest in anyone yakking about a war now over for 800 years as justification for anything.And "walking the streets of Jerusalem" doesn't...and won't...change a damn thing.
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post #47 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-01-2007, 04:42 PM
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^^^^

Well said. I agree totally.
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post #48 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-01-2007, 05:38 PM
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Crusades? Lets talk facts.I find it laughable that Middle Eastern residents use the "crusades" as reason to grudge the West.And here you are, in 2007, saying I should accept this bizarre,ancient grudge with understanding? So you think I had better accept as valid the grudges of morons based on a war which ended 800 years ago? No way.We won't go forward accepting & validating such long-standing transgressions. In fact the West has gone forward BECAUSE we aren't shackled by passing the hatred of ancient wrongs from one generation to the next (a trait all too evident elsewhere in the Middle east). Applying their unforgiving reasoning, I could justify the West's anger towards the Middle east for 9/11 for the NEXT 800 years! Final note on the Middle East and specifically the "crusades" rant which is Bin Ladens' song (as it is yours too judging by your post). AFTER the crusades were long over, it was in fact the Islamic powers that invaded Europe, and on numerous occassions, as far west as Vienna,Austria (or does that qualify as "irrelevant" in your mind?). European history 1200-1550 clearly shows that it was the Europeans who were "invaded" by islamists. So why is it "justifiable" for the Middle east to use the crusades as reason to feel wronged yet Europeans cannot say boo about their being invaded by the Middle East? So I've 0 interest in anyone yakking about a war now over for 800 years as justification for anything.And "walking the streets of Jerusalem" doesn't...and won't...change a damn thing.
I didn't say WE must accept their perception of us. It's a fact that they see us as invaders and we have not proven them wrong now have we?
It's our responsibility if you believe that we are more enlightened than them to set the record straight and show them our intent don't you think?
My reply was clearly intended to show OUR ignorance of their culture and your response just proved to me that MOST of us Westerners are arrogant. When I mentioned walking in Jerusalem it was to bring up the fact that we see their world in a vacuum and we tend to set our rules on them based on what we see fit. Just look at your response you got stuck on that crusade thing as if it's the only justification that you have to latch on to show how your thinking is superior to those people. That's the problem with people like you because they tend to have a voice in think tanks that eventually set foreign policies on how to deal with those "savages". That's why we are at war with them; let me repeat, they see us as crusaders. Can you now counter this with logic rather than emotions so you can avoid making a poor point based on your personal views?

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post #49 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-01-2007, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by torontomichael View Post
Crusades? Lets talk facts.I find it laughable that Middle Eastern residents use the "crusades" as reason to grudge the West.And here you are, in 2007, saying I should accept this bizarre,ancient grudge with understanding? So you think I had better accept as valid the grudges of morons based on a war which ended 800 years ago? No way.We won't go forward accepting & validating such long-standing transgressions. In fact the West has gone forward BECAUSE we aren't shackled by passing the hatred of ancient wrongs from one generation to the next (a trait all too evident elsewhere in the Middle east). Applying their unforgiving reasoning, I could justify the West's anger towards the Middle east for 9/11 for the NEXT 800 years! Final note on the Middle East and specifically the "crusades" rant which is Bin Ladens' song (as it is yours too judging by your post). AFTER the crusades were long over, it was in fact the Islamic powers that invaded Europe, and on numerous occassions, as far west as Vienna,Austria (or does that qualify as "irrelevant" in your mind?). European history 1200-1550 clearly shows that it was the Europeans who were "invaded" by islamists. So why is it "justifiable" for the Middle east to use the crusades as reason to feel wronged yet Europeans cannot say boo about their being invaded by the Middle East? So I've 0 interest in anyone yakking about a war now over for 800 years as justification for anything.And "walking the streets of Jerusalem" doesn't...and won't...change a damn thing.
A good analysis, which omits mention of the fact that Islam at this MOMENT is invading Europe once again, TODAY, one person at a time (in the same way Mexico is invading the States with illegal aliens)

Europe's lax immigration laws allow millions of Muslims, with exploding birth rates, from Norway to Spain, to invade Europe again, and enough of them are low skilled, under educated, undermotivated, unwillig to assimilate, and extreme religious fanatics nursing 1,000 year old religious grudges against their hosts, that it would be dangerous and foolish for the USA to admit any of them as refugees.

The Evidence of their crazed hatreds is plain enough and plentiful enough for anyone to see, in the Spanish train bombing, the London and Scotland bombings, French riots, the Danish cartoons, the Theo Van Gogh murder in Holland, and the crazed screaming mobs baying for infidel blood over the latest "Capital offense" to their blood soaked religion.

Those people have not and will NEVER stop nursing ancient religious grudges as they continue to spread hatred and violence under their religious banners.

There is a GOOD reason they have not met with open arms when they seek admission to North America in massive numbers for economic, educational or others, they are not welcomed or trusted with a historic record like that.

Jim
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post #50 of 64 (permalink) Old 12-01-2007, 06:34 PM
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A good analysis, which omits mention of the fact that Islam at this MOMENT is invading Europe once again, TODAY, one person at a time (in the same way Mexico is invading the States with illegal aliens)

Europe's lax immigration laws allow millions of Muslims, with exploding birth rates, from Norway to Spain, to invade Europe again, and enough of them are low skilled, under educated, undermotivated, unwillig to assimilate, and extreme religious fanatics nursing 1,000 year old religious grudges against their hosts, that it would be dangerous and foolish for the USA to admit any of them as refugees.

The Evidence of their crazed hatreds is plain enough and plentiful enough for anyone to see, in the Spanish train bombing, the London and Scotland bombings, French riots, the Danish cartoons, the Theo Van Gogh murder in Holland, and the crazed screaming mobs baying for infidel blood over the latest "Capital offense" to their blood soaked religion.

Those people have not and will NEVER stop nursing ancient religious grudges as they continue to spread hatred and violence under their religious banners.

There is a GOOD reason they have not met with open arms when they seek admission to North America in massive numbers for economic, educational or others, they are not welcomed or trusted with a historic record like that.
You forgot to mention that Muslims have been migrating to Europe because most of their countries were colonized by those same European countries they go to. I don't think that it was an Islamic invasion but now that they have some roots in Europe some have overstayed their welcome with their fascist attitudes and that's a given. You have to acknowledge though that we (Europeans) fuked them up, split them up and drew borders to break them up as if we owned their land. Can you deny that? Now they see the US prancing into Baghdad and they are supposed to trust us with their country?
By all means I am not defending their behavior in Europe but please understand that we gave them a raw deal with whatever land we left them with and the despots we supported to rule them. Oh, and let's not forget planting Israel in there.
Instead of complaining about their shit why not right a wrong? Why not seek a real solution to their point of contention? That is, why not FORCE Israel to sit at a negotiation table rather than photo ops like Annapolis and FORCE the Arabs to shut the fuk up and look for ways to live with their Jewish cousins. We claim to be a super power; Europeans claim to have a higher ground then, what the fuk, act upon it and stop bitchin.
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