Global Warming "Biggest scam in history" - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 05:28 PM
~BANNED~
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 41,649
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 1761 Post(s)
Everyone is after the ever elusive "I told you so."
Shane is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 05:31 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Jayhawk's Avatar
 
Date registered: Aug 2005
Vehicle: S500/W220/2000
Location: Lawrence, KS (USA)
Posts: 21,652
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith View Post
Do you always type responses with the laptop on the floor and your dick in your mouth? Doesn't that make it "hard" to concentrate on what you are trying to read as your head bobs up and down at an ever increasing frequency? Cut back on the Viagra and Levitra banquets. If you fall off the couch you could bite your own dick off. Don't say I didn't warn you. Jim
W H A T ? ? ?
Attached Images
 

Don't believe everything you think
Jayhawk is offline  
post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 12:57 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
I think I would be a bit more concerned about 1000 year old ice melting instead of flash ice refreezing. But that's just looking at the science part.

Unfortunately there will always be unknowns in any living science until there is a postmortem - at which time it might just be too late.

You might be willing to gamble on your families' future with the machinations of a few naysayers funded by big energy but I am not.
The quote from a NASA scientist sounds more like a NASA scientist's preschool kid's assessment. There used to be places where the ice was quite thick and now it is gone. The fact that so much of it melted and became visible last summer is not evidence it all melted last summer. Neither is it evidence that global warming is now safe to declare a scam because ice formed on the surface of ocean waters in a part of the world where the conditions to form ice on the ocean surface exist for more than six months of a year, even considering a few tenths of a degree C temperature rise from global warming. One of those characteristics of ice forming on the surface, and melting on the surface, of arctic waters is that the waters are too cold to form thermoclines, typically, and therefore, in these areas the density differences and stratification is based on salinity. Fresh water is lighter than seawater, so the surface water on arctic oceans tends to be less salty than deeper water. This means it typically refreezes easier than if it had been "average" salinity (say a salinity of 35 or so, which freezes around 28 or so F).

I spent a winter in the 1970's at Deadhorse, Alaska. It was minus 75 degrees F much of the time in January and was steadily dropping to this mark from a daily average temperature under the freezing mark by mid September. Regular seawater will freeze with sustained temperatures below 25 degrees F even in moderately rough seas. At minus 50 degrees F it freezes extremely readily and arctic ocean surface waters even more so.

So does the left over crap in the steam table bins - I was a "bull cook" and used to dump steam table left overs into plastic garbage cans lined with two or three heavy duty plastic bags, then tie off the top and take the bags three steps outside and wing them at the dumpster about 12 or more feet away. If I missed the top of the dumpster, which was most of the time, the bag would shatter on impact and the stuff froze on the surface by the time I walked the extra ten feet or so out to it, and picked it up as a solid mass and chucked it into the dumpster. When I walked back inside my sweaty tee shirt was frozen as well. Even floor mopping sudsy stuff would freeze on the floor if you left it for more than a few minutes.

The point is the visual data offered in the article is uncalibrated and is being used to mislead people willing and looking to be mislead on this subject. Global warming theory suggests the world warmed up a few tenths of a degree last year. Ice will still form in arctic regions in the winter. I hope that is not a surprise. The fact that all that ice that used to never go away did melt, is a sign that it has been being eroded away over some significant length of time. The US Navy probably has great records, along with the Russians, on how thick the ice was in the 1950's through today. But, it didn't go away because of one year of several tenths of a degree of temperature increase. And the fact that the surface has refrozen is not a sign of much of anything new. A real NASA scientist would have known that. Sounds like you got a quote from a Bush White House NASA scientist censor. Jim

Last edited by JimSmith; 12-13-2007 at 12:59 PM.
JimSmith is offline  
post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 01:12 PM
~BANNED~
 
Date registered: Aug 2002
Posts: 41,649
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Quoted: 1761 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith View Post
The quote from a NASA scientist sounds more like a NASA scientist's preschool kid's assessment. There used to be places where the ice was quite thick and now it is gone. The fact that so much of it melted and became visible last summer is not evidence it all melted last summer. Neither is it evidence that global warming is now safe to declare a scam because ice formed on the surface of ocean waters in a part of the world where the conditions to form ice on the ocean surface exist for more than six months of a year, even considering a few tenths of a degree C temperature rise from global warming. One of those characteristics of ice forming on the surface, and melting on the surface, of arctic waters is that the waters are too cold to form thermoclines, typically, and therefore, in these areas the density differences and stratification is based on salinity. Fresh water is lighter than seawater, so the surface water on arctic oceans tends to be less salty than deeper water. This means it typically refreezes easier than if it had been "average" salinity (say a salinity of 35 or so, which freezes around 28 or so F).

I spent a winter in the 1970's at Deadhorse, Alaska. It was minus 75 degrees F much of the time in January and was steadily dropping to this mark from a daily average temperature under the freezing mark by mid September. Regular seawater will freeze with sustained temperatures below 25 degrees F even in moderately rough seas. At minus 50 degrees F it freezes extremely readily and arctic ocean surface waters even more so.

So does the left over crap in the steam table bins - I was a "bull cook" and used to dump steam table left overs into plastic garbage cans lined with two or three heavy duty plastic bags, then tie off the top and take the bags three steps outside and wing them at the dumpster about 12 or more feet away. If I missed the top of the dumpster, which was most of the time, the bag would shatter on impact and the stuff froze on the surface by the time I walked the extra ten feet or so out to it, and picked it up as a solid mass and chucked it into the dumpster. When I walked back inside my sweaty tee shirt was frozen as well. Even floor mopping sudsy stuff would freeze on the floor if you left it for more than a few minutes.

The point is the visual data offered in the article is uncalibrated and is being used to mislead people willing and looking to be mislead on this subject. Global warming theory suggests the world warmed up a few tenths of a degree last year. Ice will still form in arctic regions in the winter. I hope that is not a surprise. The fact that all that ice that used to never go away did melt, is a sign that it has been being eroded away over some significant length of time. The US Navy probably has great records, along with the Russians, on how thick the ice was in the 1950's through today. But, it didn't go away because of one year of several tenths of a degree of temperature increase. And the fact that the surface has refrozen is not a sign of much of anything new. A real NASA scientist would have known that. Sounds like you got a quote from a Bush White House NASA scientist censor. Jim
Very well said, and your experience of cold is the most severe I have ever heard of.
Shane is offline  
post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 01:24 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane View Post
Very well said, and your experience of cold is the most severe I have ever heard of.
It was a genuinely weird experience. Throw a cup of hot water in the air and it is gone - never hits the ground. The air is so dry and cold it is truly strange. Snow drifts in March have the density of concrete. Took time exposure photos with an SLR (Pentax Spotmatic II) of the first sunrise of 1975 there - carried the camera on a tripod outside under my coat, set it up, pressed the button and the camera froze open. I put the lens cap on and took it inside, and half an our later it clicked shut. Truly a strange environment and a place where death is lurking behind every innocent misconception or error. Jim
JimSmith is offline  
post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 07:08 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
mcbear's Avatar
 
Date registered: Apr 2004
Vehicle: E500Es
Location: The BlueGrass State
Posts: 29,579
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Regarding Old Ice vs Flash Ice

There were a few times that we landed a fully loaded C141 in Alaska while testing systems in Arctic conditions. That runway has been used for 40 years and landed most every aircraft in the inventory at one point or another.

I got a picture of the runway earlier this year from a friend of mine as they flew over to the new runway. The runway that we had used in the 80s is now part of the Arctic Ocean. I had never known it was part of the ice pack, just assuming I was landing on hard ground. The ice had been 75 feet deep. It is now water. The airstrip is now 36 miles away on land.

Jim, What were you doing in Alaska? Sounds like you were up in Nome area.

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
mcbear is offline  
post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 08:18 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Sep 2004
Vehicle: 2014 E250 Bluetec 4-Matic, 1983 240D 4-Speed
Location: USA
Posts: 9,257
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Quoted: 256 Post(s)
I went up to work in the fishing industry back in 1972. The US did one of its last nuke tests in some hole on Amchitka Island in, I believe, 1974 or so. Anyway, I went up there to work in the cannery again between sophomore and junior years in college, got there and no fish. The locals blamed the A-bomb test. Who knows. I had to find another job so I pestered a company that does the feeding, housing and maintenance contracting for camps along the pipeline, which was under serious construction at the time. I started in the Anchorage warehouse and then, over periods when other guys wanted to go home, I would go up to Deadhorse/Prudhoe Bay to work. The summer was peculiar, but nothing like the winter.

I did just about anything I could up there, including hanging out in a drilling rig in my free time just to see what the hell it was all about. I met a ton of strange people, from all over the world, took pictures of caribou being eaten by mosquitoes, the peculiar vegetation that made up the tundra, and almost perpetual spectacular sunsets/sunrises. I explored workshops where guys worked on these rigs called "Rolligons" which were special vehicles with soft rubber tube like tires (40" in diameter and 48" wide) inflated to a couple of psi so they wouldn't damage the tundra as they transported special seismic and drilling equipment around the area.

To get paid I worked in a kitchen, a laundry and I made beds and cleaned bathrooms. I got flown to remote landing strips I have no idea where they were on the local favorite plane, a Twin Otter, from which you could see jeep tracks made by the US government guys in the 1940s before they knew they were damaging the tundra. It never grew back so there are all these straight line double trenches visible from several hundred feet. I closed camps, did inventories and at other times ensured all the local camps had what they needed. I drove a pick-up around then, and learned all about spinning them out on the local, frozen river.

There was always sea ice at least on the horizon, even when the local "sea lift" event happened in early August or late July. In those days there was no road up there yet, and all the stuff you needed that didn't fit in a plane (737s were the local workhorses) had to come up by barge, and the barges had no more than about 6 days to be unloaded when the ice was freed up enough to let them come close enough to shore to be off loaded. Many of them never made it back as the priority was to get the goods off before the ice came back in and stranded barges waiting to be unloaded and empty barges were low priority to pull very far out into ice-free water as long as loaded barges were still in line.

It was a weird place with a lot of people solving very challenging problems made more complex by the environment, which made it more interesting. In one instance they made an "ice island" to drill from in relatively shallow waters. They put in a cofferdam, pumped out the sea water, and filled the item from the sea bed up to the air/sea surface, with fresh water, letting it freeze. They designed all the hardware to have a footprint of sufficient size to preclude pressure melting the ice at the lowest prevailing temperatures. Roads were paved with ice. Potholes filled with water and they instantly froze. Those soft looking snow drifts as the winter got on were made up of finely ground up ice particles from snow flakes that had been blowing back and forth for months - nothing melts it just sublimes or hangs around. In the end those drifts are weather beaten to a hardness like concrete and steel is pretty brittle at those low temperatures. Many snapped axles on pickup trucks from boneheads not slowing down.

So, I was a wide-eyed kid making as many observations as I could, meeting people with all kinds of backgrounds and skills, and almost all of them steeped in a unique, can-do and common sense outlook on life. It was very interesting. Jim
JimSmith is offline  
post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-13-2007, 10:53 PM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Date registered: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,543
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane View Post
There is global warming occuring now. That is not questioned. What is causing it is still under question.
There is global freezing occuring now. That is not questioned.

I think that the cause is a global warming discussion, but I am not sure.

I don't recall such a low December temps in San Francisco EVER.
maine_coon is offline  
post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 04:10 AM
~BANNED~
 
Zedd's Avatar
 
Date registered: Feb 2004
Vehicle: 82 300D VNT, 80 240D 3.0T
Location: Denver
Posts: 3,926
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
What it really comes down to: There are A LOT of gullible people out there.
Zedd is offline  
post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-14-2007, 04:26 AM
BenzWorld Elite
 
Difflock's Avatar
 
Date registered: Dec 2006
Vehicle: 1984 300GD "G" Wagen, and 1998 Steyr Puch 290GD "G" Van & a 1988 MB Trac 1000
Location: Co Antrim, Norn Ireland
Posts: 3,293
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Quoted: 174 Post(s)
Send a message via Yahoo to Difflock
Yes but should they be trusted to run the Country?
Difflock is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

  Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Mercedes-Benz Forums > Off-Topic

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Mercedes-Benz Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in











  • Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
     
    Thread Tools
    Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
    Email this Page Email this Page
    Display Modes
    Linear Mode Linear Mode



    Similar Threads
    Topic Author Forum Replies Last Post
    Weather Channel Founder: Global Warming ‘Greatest Scam in History’ Jakarta Expat Off-Topic 5 11-08-2007 04:08 PM
    Leftwing says fires due to "global warming," but FBI looking at al-Qaeda Jayhawk Off-Topic 40 10-25-2007 09:46 AM
    "The Global Warming Swindle" Botnst Off-Topic 4 04-23-2007 11:13 AM
    Global "Warming" Awarness... Jayhawk Off-Topic 1 03-20-2007 06:18 PM
    Next "Monkey Trial": Human Caused Global Warming DaveN007 Off-Topic 0 03-19-2007 11:32 AM

    Posting Rules  
    You may post new threads
    You may post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is On
    HTML code is Off
    Trackbacks are On
    Pingbacks are On
    Refbacks are On

     

    Title goes here

    close
    video goes here
    description goes here. Read Full Story
    For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome