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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 10:56 AM
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Ooooh, shit! Al Gore better start firing up all of his homes. Mother Earth is fighting back at a furious pace!

Arctic Sea Ice Refreezes Slowly - Arctic Sea Ice - thedailygreen.com
The record melting of Arctic sea ice observed this summer and fall led to record-low levels of ice in both September and October, but a record-setting pace of re-freezing in November, according to the NASA Earth Observatory. Some 58,000 square miles of ice formed per day for 10 days in late October and early November, a new record.

Still, the extent of sea ice recorded in November was well shy of the median extent observed over the past quarter century, as the image from Nov. 14 (above, right) shows. The dramatic increase in ice is evident, when compared to the record-low amount observed Sept. 16 (below, right). In both images, 100% sea ice is shown in white, and the yellow line encompasses the area ion which there was at least 15% ice cover in at least half of the 25-year record for the given month.

The record melting of Arctic sea ice this summer was widely viewed as a harbinger of global warming, though unusual wind patterns played a role and many factors affecting fluctuations in Arctic ice are poorly understood by scientists. Still, so much ice melted that the fabled Northwest passage opened for the first time in history, and the melting broke a record, set just two years ago and by a country mile, that at the time was seen as unprecedented and worrying.

The area of persistent open water north of Alaska and eastern Siberia, according to NASA, is unusual for this time of year, though not unprecedented. This area was also largely free of ice in November 2002 and especially November 2006.

Here's how NASA explains the record re-growth of ice over that 10-day period in October and November:

Record sea ice growth rates after a record low may sound surprising at first, but it is not completely unexpected. The more ice that survives the summer melt, the less open water there is for new ice to grow. When summertime ice extent hits a record low, on the other hand, large areas of open water provide room for the ice to grow once temperatures cool off enough. While summer warming of the upper ocean surface can cause wintertime sea ice regrowth to lag initially, as the fall season progresses and sunlight weakens, the rate of energy loss from the ocean increases. That heat loss coupled with a large area of open water creates ideal conditions for sea ice to form rapidly over large areas.
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
Ooooh, shit! Al Gore better start firing up all of his homes. Mother Earth is fighting back at a furious pace!

Arctic Sea Ice Refreezes Slowly - Arctic Sea Ice - thedailygreen.com
The record melting of Arctic sea ice observed this summer and fall led to record-low levels of ice in both September and October, but a record-setting pace of re-freezing in November, according to the NASA Earth Observatory. Some 58,000 square miles of ice formed per day for 10 days in late October and early November, a new record.

Still, the extent of sea ice recorded in November was well shy of the median extent observed over the past quarter century, as the image from Nov. 14 (above, right) shows. The dramatic increase in ice is evident, when compared to the record-low amount observed Sept. 16 (below, right). In both images, 100% sea ice is shown in white, and the yellow line encompasses the area ion which there was at least 15% ice cover in at least half of the 25-year record for the given month.

The record melting of Arctic sea ice this summer was widely viewed as a harbinger of global warming, though unusual wind patterns played a role and many factors affecting fluctuations in Arctic ice are poorly understood by scientists. Still, so much ice melted that the fabled Northwest passage opened for the first time in history, and the melting broke a record, set just two years ago and by a country mile, that at the time was seen as unprecedented and worrying.

The area of persistent open water north of Alaska and eastern Siberia, according to NASA, is unusual for this time of year, though not unprecedented. This area was also largely free of ice in November 2002 and especially November 2006.

Here's how NASA explains the record re-growth of ice over that 10-day period in October and November:

Record sea ice growth rates after a record low may sound surprising at first, but it is not completely unexpected. The more ice that survives the summer melt, the less open water there is for new ice to grow. When summertime ice extent hits a record low, on the other hand, large areas of open water provide room for the ice to grow once temperatures cool off enough. While summer warming of the upper ocean surface can cause wintertime sea ice regrowth to lag initially, as the fall season progresses and sunlight weakens, the rate of energy loss from the ocean increases. That heat loss coupled with a large area of open water creates ideal conditions for sea ice to form rapidly over large areas.
What do you think is more significant, volume or surface area for this refreezing vs. melting ice story? I notice very little about volume in the quote, maybe it doesn't make any difference or maybe it is essential? Jim
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR View Post
Ooooh, shit! Al Gore better start firing up all of his homes. Mother Earth is fighting back at a furious pace!

Arctic Sea Ice Refreezes Slowly - Arctic Sea Ice - thedailygreen.com
The record melting of Arctic sea ice observed this summer and fall led to record-low levels of ice in both September and October, but a record-setting pace of re-freezing in November, according to the NASA Earth Observatory. Some 58,000 square miles of ice formed per day for 10 days in late October and early November, a new record.

Still, the extent of sea ice recorded in November was well shy of the median extent observed over the past quarter century, as the image from Nov. 14 (above, right) shows. The dramatic increase in ice is evident, when compared to the record-low amount observed Sept. 16 (below, right). In both images, 100% sea ice is shown in white, and the yellow line encompasses the area ion which there was at least 15% ice cover in at least half of the 25-year record for the given month.

The record melting of Arctic sea ice this summer was widely viewed as a harbinger of global warming, though unusual wind patterns played a role and many factors affecting fluctuations in Arctic ice are poorly understood by scientists. Still, so much ice melted that the fabled Northwest passage opened for the first time in history, and the melting broke a record, set just two years ago and by a country mile, that at the time was seen as unprecedented and worrying.

The area of persistent open water north of Alaska and eastern Siberia, according to NASA, is unusual for this time of year, though not unprecedented. This area was also largely free of ice in November 2002 and especially November 2006.

Here's how NASA explains the record re-growth of ice over that 10-day period in October and November:

Record sea ice growth rates after a record low may sound surprising at first, but it is not completely unexpected. The more ice that survives the summer melt, the less open water there is for new ice to grow. When summertime ice extent hits a record low, on the other hand, large areas of open water provide room for the ice to grow once temperatures cool off enough. While summer warming of the upper ocean surface can cause wintertime sea ice regrowth to lag initially, as the fall season progresses and sunlight weakens, the rate of energy loss from the ocean increases. That heat loss coupled with a large area of open water creates ideal conditions for sea ice to form rapidly over large areas.
I think some of the focus should have been on the next sentence. That annoying trending stuff and all.

Of course depending on who wrote the sentence and what their actual intent of it was, "...many factors affecting fluctuations in Arctic ice are poorly understood by scientists" could have several meanings. A simple substitution will show you what I mean.

"...many factors affecting fluctuations in Marital Relations are poorly understood by scientists." Yet, unless extremely obtuse, they all would know when they are in deep trouble.

McBear,
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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 11:16 AM
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The portion of the article I found significant was shown plainly in bold.
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 11:20 AM
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And several centuries ago, there were large farming villages in mid-Greenland, which are now covered in ice. It's called tundra. Imagine that. So would it be possible that this 'weather trend', as I refer to it, may be returning the earth to former warmer temperatures? You know, they did find the frozen carcass of a Mammoth in the arctic that had a chew of cud still in it's mouth. What was it eating? Tropical foliage.

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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear View Post
I think some of the focus should have been on the next sentence. That annoying trending stuff and all.

Of course depending on who wrote the sentence and what their actual intent of it was, "...many factors affecting fluctuations in Arctic ice are poorly understood by scientists" could have several meanings. A simple substitution will show you what I mean.

"...many factors affecting fluctuations in Marital Relations are poorly understood by scientists." Yet, unless extremely obtuse, they all would know when they are in deep trouble.
LOL...

I'm arguing nothing other than that too little is known and understood about the observed phenomena cited by the Gorelets to justify wild, immediate shifts in everyone's daily behaviors. Look no further than Gore himself for evidence of this. Insofar as people still beat the Kyoto Protocol drum, or think that driving an SUV is killing the planet, I'll continue to point out just how ignorant we all are about what makes the world tick. Talk to me in another couple of hundred years...hopefully companies will stop pouring money and effort into proving global warming (rather than disproving the theory, which is what you're supposed to do), and focus on something beneficial - like making it possible for me to live 300 years so I can say "I told you so" to whoever still thinks we have any ability to save or kill the entire planet just by burning fossil fuels.

I'm NOT arguing that we SHOULDN'T clean up our acts. I'm NOT saying that alternative energy is a waste of time. NEITHER of those things are true.

I just don't need to hear about what fuckers we are in the USA on NPR in the morning, and how cool Australia's new PM is, all because of this fucked up Kyoto piece of dog shit. And Al Gore make like Spock and digest my wedding veggies.
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 11:25 AM
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The portion of the article I found significant was shown plainly in bold.
I think I would be a bit more concerned about 1000 year old ice melting instead of flash ice refreezing. But that's just looking at the science part.

Unfortunately there will always be unknowns in any living science until there is a postmortem - at which time it might just be too late.

You might be willing to gamble on your families' future with the machinations of a few naysayers funded by big energy but I am not.

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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 11:33 AM
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LOL...

I'm arguing nothing other than that too little is known and understood about the observed phenomena cited by the Gorelets to justify wild, immediate shifts in everyone's daily behaviors. Look no further than Gore himself for evidence of this. Insofar as people still beat the Kyoto Protocol drum, or think that driving an SUV is killing the planet, I'll continue to point out just how ignorant we all are about what makes the world tick. Talk to me in another couple of hundred years...hopefully companies will stop pouring money and effort into proving global warming (rather than disproving the theory, which is what you're supposed to do), and focus on something beneficial - like making it possible for me to live 300 years so I can say "I told you so" to whoever still thinks we have any ability to save or kill the entire planet just by burning fossil fuels.

I'm NOT arguing that we SHOULDN'T clean up our acts. I'm NOT saying that alternative energy is a waste of time. NEITHER of those things are true.

I just don't need to hear about what fuckers we are in the USA on NPR in the morning, and how cool Australia's new PM is, all because of this fucked up Kyoto piece of dog shit. And Al Gore make like Spock and digest my wedding veggies.
I actually agree with much of that.

There is way too much hype [mostly media generated] that, as usual throws focus off the big picture.

As for research, I think you will find the real research that has been going on for the past 30 years or so does use scientific methods, not "prove to theory". Much of that is what got us to the place we are today. But that science is not sexy or easy for the media to present so it goes un-noticed.

As for the need to "justify wild, immediate shifts in everyone's daily behaviors.", that is the one single biggest red herring that the naysayers throw out. It is just not factual, nor has it been presented as a way to address the problems of climate change by the scientific community.

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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 04:08 PM
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I think some of the focus should have been on the next sentence. That annoying trending stuff and all.

Of course depending on who wrote the sentence and what their actual intent of it was, "...many factors affecting fluctuations in Arctic ice are poorly understood by scientists" could have several meanings. A simple substitution will show you what I mean.

"...many factors affecting fluctuations in Marital Relations are poorly understood by scientists." Yet, unless extremely obtuse, they all would know when they are in deep trouble.
I believe scientists know MUCH MORE about marital relations than they do about fluctuations in Arctic ice...

Don't believe everything you think
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 12-12-2007, 05:19 PM
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I believe scientists know MUCH MORE about marital relations than they do about fluctuations in Arctic ice...
Do you always type responses with the laptop on the floor and your dick in your mouth? Doesn't that make it "hard" to concentrate on what you are trying to read as your head bobs up and down at an ever increasing frequency? Cut back on the Viagra and Levitra banquets. If you fall off the couch you could bite your own dick off. Don't say I didn't warn you. Jim
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