A reason to vote for Hillary - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-23-2007, 06:37 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Rascasse View Post
I for one would not be in favor of:

higher taxes
more goverment control
out of control spending
massive social programs
socialized medicine

to name just a few. If that's what you are looking for, then Hillary is your man......errr, woman.
Just WTF do you think we have now? Something different than that? Heck, the GOP Perscription Drug Program is looking like it will be one of the biggest of all time. Out of control spending? Give me a fucking break, President Shitbird is asking for an extra 50 billion more for Iraq today, just weeks after getting 200 billion, I mean, are you fucking nuts? And more government control? Yeah right.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #22 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-23-2007, 06:38 PM Thread Starter
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One of these things is not like the other
Salon.com - Breaking news, opinion, politics, entertainment, sports and culture.

George W. Bush and Hillary Clinton have both just had the opportunity to address the war on terrorism in the context of a relatively sophisticated, academic discussion. Suffice it to say, they used their opportunities differently.

Here's the president, speaking this morning in the Distinguished Lecturer Program at the National Defense University:

"We're at war with coldblooded killers who despise freedom, reject tolerance, and kill the innocent in pursuit of their political vision ... And one of the real challenges we face is, will we have confidence in the liberty to be transformative? Will we lose faith in the universality of liberty? Will we ignore history and not realize that liberty has got the capacity to yield the peace we want? So this administration, along with many in our military, will continue to spread the hope of liberty, in order to defeat the ideology of darkness, the ideology of the terrorists -- and work to secure a future of peace for generations to come. That's our call."

Now here's Clinton, asked by Guardian America's Michael Tomasky whether terrorists "hate us for our freedoms" or actually have "specific geopolitical objectives."

"Well, I believe that terrorism is a tool that has been utilized throughout history to achieve certain objectives. Some have been ideological, others territorial. There are personality-driven terroristic objectives. The bottom line is, you can't lump all terrorists together. And I think we've got to do a much better job of clarifying what are the motivations, the raisons d'etre of terrorists. I mean, what the Tamil Tigers are fighting for in Sri Lanka, or the Basque separatists in Spain, or the insurgents in al-Anbar province may only be connected by tactics. They may not share all that much in terms of what is the philosophical or ideological underpinning. And I think one of our mistakes has been painting with such a broad brush, which has not been particularly helpful in understanding what it is we were up against when it comes to those who pursue terrorism for whichever ends they're seeking."

Now, does Bush's talk of "coldblooded killers" play better on the campaign trail? Of course it does. But does Clinton's refusal to "lump all terrorists together" suggest that she has thought about the issue in a slightly more penetrating way?

Well, let's put it this way: Can you imagine a reporter asking Bush -- as Tomasky asked Clinton -- whether he thought the war on Iraq fits "within the tradition we associate with Truman and Acheson"?

And if a reporter were to ask such a question, can you imagine Bush answering by saying that "it's hard to take what was a philosophy with respect to the use and containment of power during the Cold War and try to shoehorn it into a post-Cold War context"?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #23 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-23-2007, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rascasse View Post
I for one would not be in favor of:

higher taxes
more goverment control
out of control spending
massive social programs
socialized medicine

to name just a few. If that's what you are looking for, then Hillary is your man......errr, woman.
We need higher taxes you fool!
More government control is already in place if you have not noticed and how about spending control, huh? Did you have a look at the budget and how it was used up in the last seven years?
We have a broken health system that can only be fixed by removing the greed factor from insurance companies and if that calls for socialized medicine, so be it. Oh, please when you want to exaggerate about "massive social programs" be specific so we can get your drift.

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post #24 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-23-2007, 06:44 PM
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You're not convincing anyone on the Left Coast. Latest CA straw poll showed her down the list, with Edwards way out in front.

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. (Winston Churchill)
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post #25 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-24-2007, 07:08 AM Thread Starter
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I wish you would supply some links to prove you are right. Meanwhile, I will be glad to post links showing you are wrong:

Newsblog | California presidential poll

California Presidential Polls

http://www.presidentpolls2008.com/pr...can-polls.html

Google some more if you like, they are all consistent, she is at 41% in CA, Edwards is at 14%. I did find this one on a straw poll that took place covering the San Francisco area:

John Edwards wins Northern California Straw Poll - Elections - MySpace News

Since that is the most far-left area in the country and this is some small group of activists doing their thing, that poll does not surprise me, but I certainly doubt if California as a whole is tilting that way, especially after looking at the polls above, which are polls of likely CA primary voters. It is obvious HRC is going to win California handily, so pardon me if I characterize your ranting of me "not convincing anyone in California" as well, psychotic, a term I am not using in an insulting way, but in a clinical manner, using the classical definition of psychosis as "a break from reality". Of course, I say that with love and with the compassion I reserve for seriously mentally ill people.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #26 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-24-2007, 07:27 AM
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"And that's why the United States, will lead us all, to peace

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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove View Post
.

Here's the president, speaking this morning in the Distinguished Lecturer Program at the National Defense University:

"We're at war with coldblooded killers who despise freedom, reject tolerance, and kill the innocent in pursuit of their political vision ... And one of the real challenges we face is, will we have confidence in the liberty to be transformative? Will we lose faith in the universality of liberty? Will we ignore history and not realize that liberty has got the capacity to yield the peace we want? So this administration, along with many in our military, will continue to spread the hope of liberty, in order to defeat the ideology of darkness, the ideology of the terrorists -- ]and work to secure a future of peace for generations to come. That's our call."
YouTube - Bush Impersonation

gobble, gobble.

Heh, heh.

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post #27 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-24-2007, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove View Post
Since that is the most far-left area in the country and this is some small group of activists doing their thing, that poll does not surprise me, but I certainly doubt if California as a whole is tilting that way, especially after looking at the polls above, which are polls of likely CA primary voters. It is obvious HRC is going to win California handily, so pardon me if I characterize your ranting of me "not convincing anyone in California" as well, psychotic, a term I am not using in an insulting way, but in a clinical manner, using the classical definition of psychosis as "a break from reality". Of course, I say that with love and with the compassion I reserve for seriously mentally ill people.
Jeez, if you thought that was ranting, are you sure you've ever been in OT before? I've been accused of making fatuous comments in OT before, typically the shorter they are, the more likely that is to be true. In this case it was as well. The whole post was tongue-in-cheek.

So pardon me for forgetting to point out it was SF-based, but either way whoever wins any of these polls doesn't mean much right now and it's unlikely they have any meaningful predictive power in this situation. You're bright enough and have been around long enough to know that polls rarely equate to actual voter behavior at the polls, particularly when the election is so far away.

Besides, the swift-boaters aren't even at the dock yet.

Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery. (Winston Churchill)
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post #28 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-24-2007, 08:01 PM
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Hillary couldn't catch Bill in the White House yet she scorns Bush for not finding Osama.
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post #29 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-24-2007, 08:04 PM
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Hillary couldn't catch Bill in the White House yet she scorns Bush for not finding Osama.
Actually, much like Bush and Ossamma's relationship, Hillary had no interest in "finding" Bill. She figured it was in her personal best interest to not "find" Bill, just as Bush has apparently concluded it is not in his personal best interest to find Ossamma. Jim
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post #30 of 36 (permalink) Old 10-24-2007, 08:27 PM Thread Starter
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Hillary couldn't catch Bill in the White House yet she scorns Bush for not finding Osama.
With a 24% rating in the polls, I think everyone scorns Bush.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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