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post #1 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
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New AG Candidate Differs with Gonzales

LAURIE KELLMAN | October 17, 2007 03:33 PM EST |

WASHINGTON — Attorney General-designate Michael Mukasey said Wednesday the president doesn't have the authority to use torture techniques against terrorism suspects, a stance not taken by predecessor Alberto Gonzales and considered key to the nominee's confirmation.
Mukasey repudiated a 2002 memo by then-Assistant Attorney General Jay Bybee that said the president has the power to issue orders that violate the Geneva Conventions as well as international and U.S. laws prohibiting torture. The memo was later disavowed and overridden by an executive order on interrogation of terrorism suspects, which allowed harsh questioning but included a vaguely worded ban on cruel and inhuman treatment.
"The Bybee memo, to paraphrase a French diplomat, was worse than a sin, it was a mistake. It was unnecessary," Mukasey, 66, told the Senate Judiciary Committee under questioning by Chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt.
Leahy said that he and other senators did not vote for Gonzales in large part because he refused to disavow the Bybee memo.




see the following for the rest of the article:



Mukasey Disavows Torture Memo - Politics on The Huffington Post



Sure seems like Bush will be found to have broken the law and violated the Constitution. May help him figure it is time to resign. Along with Cheney.




Jim
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post #2 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 09:48 PM
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the president doesn't have the authority to use torture techniques against terrorism suspects
The President may not, but the interagators do!!!


Im not against some forms of torture if it gets the answers that are needed. There are some things that are best left to the professionals and not to be decided by the populace at large that is mostly uninformed.

Thats not to say that guidance, supervison, guidlines etc isn't needed, it is....(I know im opening a can a worms that I may not have all the answers to)


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post #3 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 10:12 PM
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Im not against some forms of torture if it gets the answers that are needed. There are some things that are best left to the professionals and not to be decided by the populace at large that is mostly uninformed.
Would that torture be before or after the Miranda warnings?

Or shall we dispense with that inconvenience as well as our obligations to the Geneva Conventions?

Where does the insistence on getting 'the answers that are needed', end?

'The professionals' as you put it, are people, with all of the same foibles, weaknesses, prejudices, predilections, and obstinacies of 'the populace at large'.

Indeed, your open can of worms is sliding down a slippery slope.
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post #4 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 10:49 PM
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Would that torture be before or after the Miranda warnings?

Or shall we dispense with that inconvenience as well as our obligations to the Geneva Conventions?

Where does the insistence on getting 'the answers that are needed', end?

'The professionals' as you put it, are people, with all of the same foibles, weaknesses, prejudices, predilections, and obstinacies of 'the populace at large'.

Indeed, your open can of worms is sliding down a slippery slope.
All good questions that I dont have answers to.

Miranda comes into play on US soil. Although I know they have picked up "suspects" here on our own ground.

The professionals, as I put it, have a greater amount of intelligence as to who they are dealing with and the circumstances surrounding the interogation. Much better than what we read/see in the news.

But these items like many ?'s are in need of good discussions. I dont believe there is any one right answer. Just like the ememy we deal with, rules can only go and work in some situations.

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post #5 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 11:12 PM
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The point I am making is that once a mindset is in place that allows allows for the dismissal of one set of rules, others are sure to follow.

I don't want any agency of my government, federal, state, or local, to think, as an institution, that physical torture and coercion are acceptable.

As a member of law enforcement, you know full well that improperly used, non physical interrogation techniques can and do elicit false confessions. Confessions elicited by professionals. Add to that a physical coercion factor and anyone can be induced to say anything the interrogator wants to hear.

The carry over of 'Homeland Security paranoia' into the general law enforcement community, and the 'do as you're told or else' physicality of some recent events only serves to show what I believe is an inherent and growing authoritarianism that must not be allowed to continue.
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post #6 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-17-2007, 11:37 PM
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Yes there are many pitfalls that law enforcement can and has fallen into and authoritarianism is very scary.

The differing levels of education definitly play a role in how an interogation is done. Most of the problems that law enforcement of the local level deal with is the poor quality of hires.

If all departments mandated a college degree alot of the issues would be minimized. Chicago PD is one department that is trying to raise the requirements but are getting resistance on many fronts. Its too bad because that department is rife with corruption including the hiring of gang members.

But here I go on a tangent, again I dont have the solutions but interogation is not and should not be a walk in the park. Most if not all questions asked in interogations are not yes or no answers, they are looking for substantially deeper responses that can't be made up on the whim.

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post #7 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-18-2007, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
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Looks like the goodwill he had after his first day has been undone today. Hopefully the hearings will press him to make his position on the Constitution and dictatorial executives, torture and "war powers" in an undeclared war that fall to the executive branch. At first it seemed this nominee held promise - now he looks like a more capable candidate than Gonazales, in terms of intellectual capacity, but similarly misguided, which is likely worse. Time to hit the Gong and get to the next candidate. Jim
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post #8 of 8 (permalink) Old 10-18-2007, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBenz94 View Post
The President may not, but the interagators do!!!


Im not against some forms of torture if it gets the answers that are needed. There are some things that are best left to the professionals and not to be decided by the populace at large that is mostly uninformed.



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