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post #31 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-09-2007, 09:04 AM
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FTL is the official BWOT Welcome Wagon representative. He's still practicing.
He's not new. It's probably Botnst setting anchor in these waters.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #32 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-09-2007, 09:11 AM
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He is not Botnst, and he does 'not see' (get it?) the world through Botnst's eyes.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #33 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-09-2007, 09:41 AM
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Just another chapter in the long Book of Trollism.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #34 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-09-2007, 10:23 AM
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^^^

A "laugh out loud" moment. Funny.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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post #35 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-09-2007, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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[QUOTE=FeelTheLove;2575739][QUOTE=Shane;2575161]

"You seem to claim to know some great weakness that will destroy us and bring us to our knees, that if we do not kill and slaughter for what we want, we will be destroyed. It is an old and stupid idea."

What you wrote before this little slice was in-arguably true, but this moral qualm is misguided. I presume where you and I differ is that I believe there are things worth dying for in this world as we know it. Why you ask? Simply because there are so many out there who will drag it down to that horrible level to achieve their goals. I do not believe the high road can effectively be taken each and every time. I know of no great weakness, all I see is some in our great society becoming so egotistical that they think they have an answer that creates no negative ripples.
If I was in a position to make an effective difference I do not know if I would take the barbaric low or intellectual high road. Sometimes technology and manipulation are not enough to keep the average working American steady in life. Our goals are common, we both want the American public to do better, all of it and not just the ones who directly feed the political machine. I do not believe we differ in philosophy either, I just feel you would be better able to argue your point if you saw that every action has a negative reaction, you cannot get away from this fact. Standing high on moral principle does not ensure a victory every time, especially when your recent history shows this is not the way you rose to greatness. In politics you just have to try to gauge how the public will generally react to all your positives and let slip the negatives. Getting off oil should be done at the represented public's behest and not at some egomaniacs force through morals or intellectualism.
Call this what you want, but I wouldn't debate with you if I thought you were not worth debating. No one should think themselves above learning, there is so much to learn about and I wish to engage learning through debate with you.

Last edited by Shane; 10-09-2007 at 10:41 AM.
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post #36 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-09-2007, 11:52 AM
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Someone suggesting oil independence who rolls with 7 Cadillacs, a Mercedes SL, Crown Vic interceptor, a Corvette and a Wagoneer, is not taking the
high road in the discussion, it seems to me, unless I am missing something here somehow, like maybe they have their own private oil well.

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post #37 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-09-2007, 04:19 PM Thread Starter
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^I believe I did not say which road I take personally and I do not think you have positioned yourself just yet in a position to judge which is high and that which is not quite so high. First you need to set a definitive regarding high and low and elaborate, then move one why you suppose my persona fits into one of those cute little cubby holes. So before you generalize, like me saying I think you are a hypocritical socialist, you may want to lay some funny firm ground work.
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post #38 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-09-2007, 05:05 PM
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What should make you really mad, isn't that a bright guy like Botnst
supports the status quo to your face,
...or that the American people continue to back
the team with the most offensive plan,

but that there is no viable alternative that isn't run down and left in the gutter...
scorned, mocked and discredited by 'the real way of things'.
And that every day you read your newspapers, make use of the store bought waxes, soaps, and trucked in lumber,
you guzzle the filth they're peddling like obese teenage fast food addicts
who's only friend is a belly full of MSG s and polyunsaturated happiness
kept in mesmer by a constant flow of electric current from the plant

And that most any one of them, who can actually see the problem, would turn mercenary
in two heartbeats if given the chance to climb higher on the ladder toward a more
voluminous putrification of the world they were born into.

And that those who offer an 'acceptable' alternative in the eyes of the group hysteria
will move down some 'different' road to the same destination
as surly as that 'the sun will some day not rise'

That the war of mans holy purpose
has been fought and lost
in every hour of every day
since eyes first gazed upon
a gump of proteins made.

But what the hell, maybe a few hangings could straighten things out around here.

-Marty


"...pour out of one vessel into another; and as those old Romans robbed all the cities in the world, we skim the cream of other men's wits, pick the choice flowers of their tilled gardens to set our own sterile plots."
-a Richard Burton

Last edited by A264172; 10-09-2007 at 06:40 PM.
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post #39 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-09-2007, 05:21 PM
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I guess I don't see the same problem.

There was a problem.

The leaders of our once great nation chose not to ignore the problem, but to exacerbate the problem, then use that problem as a launching pad in order to create a different, more substantial set of problems (see imperialism, fascism).

Other than that, I don't see the problem.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #40 of 45 (permalink) Old 10-09-2007, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar View Post
I guess I don't see the same problem.

There was a problem.

The leaders of our once great nation chose not to ignore the problem, but to exacerbate the problem, then use that problem as a launching pad in order to create a different, more substantial set of problems (see imperialism, fascism).

Other than that, I don't see the problem.
Sounds cyclical.

Are you quite sure the 'once great' didn't have to do with a good batch of beer, plentiful game, and a seat at the 'adults' table? (My own best thought is held in higher regard than older thoughts and younger, better in their time by their thinkers estimations.)

Can things be torn down without being out competed... and any thing will do that will do the job... and bring a substantial set of problems to the party.

-Marty


"...pour out of one vessel into another; and as those old Romans robbed all the cities in the world, we skim the cream of other men's wits, pick the choice flowers of their tilled gardens to set our own sterile plots."
-a Richard Burton
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