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post #21 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 07:45 PM
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So invading Iran would solve our oil supply, so what are we waiting for? I also hear that Borat is selling Kazakhstan for a couple of donkeys to use as a dowry to marry his sister.
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post #22 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Shane View Post
Jim,

Let me first thank you for the nice retort instead of the usual and tired all out attack. I applaud you and would do well to emulate your behaviour in future discourses. Now back to the subject at hand; I brought up the notion of oil as the reason for my stand against the immediate Iraqi with drawl. This is a paramount problem facing the USA today and you are very correct, I have not given any details. I have always found this essay particularly lucid in it's observations regarding our current precarious position. I hope it sheds some light upon my reasoning. I feel it is not left or right tainted.

OIL AND U.S. DIPLOMACY
Determining Factor
by John B. Judis
Post date 04.26.06
Shane,

I won't try to dismiss the challenge and seriousness of retaining a steady supply of oil. My problem is that we have gone about this entirely wrong, and by "staying the course" we make things worse rather than better.

First, invading Iraq to secure another decade of steadily increasing oil from the middle east in the face of competing demand from China and other developed and developing nations was too short sighted to be worth a second thought. I say this because if those nations are willing to fight for access to their perception of a fair share, or needed share, of the Middle East's oil, making Iraq the 51st State of the Union is hardly going to make the supply lines invulnerable.

Given the Middle East is willing to pump more oil out of their reservoirs until they dry up, for money, I fail to see why we could not have just paid the going price for oil and made out fine. If there were to be a skirmish over the oil from other consumers, most modern industrialized nations and those on the upswing understand their overall economies would drown in oil if the American economy withered due to a lack of oil. And that in any such skirmish we can deny them oil at all, while we still have some oil within our territorial waters and the North American continent.

Oil may well become scarce soon, at any price. And that is the issue our government should be facing and expending our collective national capabilities on addressing, not securing another ten years', at best, source of artificially cheap oil to maintain our national fix. We need to understand, and the sooner the better, that learning how to seriously conserve oil combined with finding the next things after oil has to be the focus of our national energy policy.

There is a moral argument for trying to fix what George Bush broke in Iraq with his blundering in under false pretenses. But that falls short if you look at how inept we are at fixing things in other cultures. I stand by my original claim that the response to 9-11-2001 should have been a nuclear attack to take out the Taliban and Ossamma late in the afternoon local time on 9-12-2001. Half a million casualties and several million displaced people would have been likely collateral damage. Instead we have brought about the slow murder of about half a million or more people, and displaced at least two million over about 4 and half years. While seeing to it that another 4,000 Americans have been killed by Islamic zealots.

And nothing has changed for the better. It is getting worse, and in another ten years we will see these numbers grow immensely by continuing to heed the logic that suggests we have no choices so we must stay the course. Staying the course in Iraq means continuing to aggravate the entire Arab and Persian populations, while we look for evidence that the existing Iraqi government will be able to stand up and govern without being overrun by a Shiite dictator propped up by Iran. Along with an escalation of the violence inside Iraq, it is inevitable if we stay the violence will spread, likely to include Iran, and Israel in what will most certainly involve, eventually, WMD used by Israel and Iran against each other. All of which will most likely disrupt our precious oil supply.

While no one worked on the replacements for this cheap and easy fuel.

Shane, I hear the argument but I don't see how "staying the course" answers the mail. We need to spend $200,000,000,000.00 a year for a decade on figuring our way out of this oil dependency, and frankly, if it is inconvenient for Exxon-Mobil, Shell, BP, the state of Texas in general and KBR for oil to be replaced with a dozen or more independent and renewable energy sources, I don't really care. Our nation's future is at stake, I agree. If we pin it on more oil that we may have to fight China and others for, we are selling out our nation's future because we refuse to just demand options to weigh with varied and realistic scenarios to base our decisions upon.

In short, it is the ultimate failure of our generation of Americans to accept such a short sighted vision merely because the vision has the allure of allowing this generation to possibly live out its life sitting on its collective ass, consuming meaningless cheap shit from China and watching sitcoms on TV interrupted with regular updates on the lives of celebrities. It would be much more appropriate that this problem of a reliable energy source for all Americans be faced and moved along by sacrifices by all Americans, not just the ones we have the great fortune of having in our all volunteer armed forces. Jim

Last edited by JimSmith; 10-02-2007 at 10:34 PM.
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post #23 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce R. View Post
The only lying dope fed shit bag arond here would be.... YOU ... my little narrow minded friend.

I know what I heard, and that is not it... Who is to say that "Media Matters", a well known Democrap front organ sired by Hillery Clinton, wouldn't "cook the books" in their favor. Like THAT has never been know to happen.
I would trust their transcript as much as I would one coming from "The Huffington Post", of course you would swear to it but that's another story isn't it........
Apparently Rush doesn't realize that nearly every large media [him included] records their competition for just this sort of thing.

Dude got caught, that simple. No matter who published it first, whether it was Media Matters or CNN or MSNBC or KOS or any of the other sources that records every word he says, it is out there. Don't kill the messenger.

The edits are well done but not good enough. Note that he has not shown a tape with the production clock running to prove there are no edits.

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post #24 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 11:08 PM
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All I can say is fuck Reid.

Hes a pile of crap that attacks a talk show host but doesnt have the gumption to attack people of his own party and that are elected officials, for saying much worse things about the Armed Services of our country.

He needs to start in his own backyard before he opens his retarded trap again.

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post #25 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 11:33 PM
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All I can say is fuck Reid.

Hes a pile of crap that attacks a talk show host but doesnt have the gumption to attack people of his own party and that are elected officials, for saying much worse things about the Armed Services of our country.

He needs to start in his own backyard before he opens his retarded trap again.
I don't think you will find very many folks in his backyard that have said a bad word about the troops. Everything has been focused on the Planning and the Prosecution of the war by the Pentagon and the Administration.

Only time troops ever have come into it that I recall has been Abu Grab and the kids that raped and burned the family.

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post #26 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-02-2007, 11:40 PM
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Well now I have to go research this....ugh.........

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post #27 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-03-2007, 01:43 AM
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Hell, you guys got a problem with Media Matters, an organization that is killing you people with the facts, hell, read Rush's own words. The man is an utter shitbag. I've never heard of this soldier he keeps talking about as some "hero of the left" who turned out to be a fraud, but it is obvious from this transcript that what Bruce R asserts is patently false. The subject was soldiers in general, and the discussion of this one actual phony soldier took place after the insulting diatribe against men who have more than paid for the right to have an opinion on this war. But what is even more disturbing is the utter Nazism of this man's thinking. Adherents to Republicanism must be in line with the thinking of the Fuerher, says Herr Goebbels here. Is this what Republicanism has become? Does anyone need any more indication that people like Bruce R have become nothing more than fucking bleeting sheep on this fucking Animal Farm? Everyone should read this transcript and see what despicable Nazi bastards these goosestepping cocksuckers are:

BEGIN TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Mike in Chicago, welcome to the EIB Network. Hello.

CALLER: Hi, Rush, how you doing today?

RUSH: Fine, sir, thank you.

CALLER: Good. Why is it that you always just accuse the Democrats of being against the war and that there's actually no Republicans that can possibly be against the war?

RUSH: Well, who are these Republicans? I can think of Chuck Hagel, and I can think of Gordon Smith, two Republican senators, but they don't want to lose the war like the Democrats do. I can't think of who the Republicans are in the anti-war movement.

CALLER: I'm not talking about the senators. I'm talking about the general public. You accuse the public and all the Democrats of being, you know, wanting to lose --

RUSH: Oh, come on, here we go again. I utter the truth, and you can't handle it so you gotta call here and change the subject. How come I'm not also hitting Republicans? I don't know a single Republican or conservative, Mike, who wants to pull out of Iraq in defeat. The Democrats have made the last four years about that specifically.

CALLER: Well, I am a Republican, and I listened to you for a long time, and you're right on a lot of things, but I do believe that we should pull out of Iraq. I don't think it's winnable. I'm not a Democrat, but sometimes you gotta cut the losses. I mean, sometimes you really got to admit you're wrong.

RUSH: Well, yeah, you do. I'm not wrong on this. The worst thing that can happen is losing this, getting out of there, waving the white flag.

CALLER: I'm not saying that, I'm not saying anything like that.

RUSH: Of course you are.

CALLER: No, I'm not!

RUSH: The truth is the truth, Mike.

CALLER: We did what we were supposed to do, okay, we got rid of Saddam Hussein; we got rid of a lot of the terrorists. Let them run their country now. Let's get out of there and let's be done with it. We won it.

RUSH: I'm never going to be able to retire. It's not going to work. You are depressing me.

CALLER: Well, sometimes, like you said, the truth hurts, Rush. Sometimes it hurts.RUSH: I have explained this so many times. I can't believe that you actually listen to this program a lot, because you've heard me say what I'm going to say to you. War is never "plottable" on a piece of paper or on a map. It never goes exactly as anybody thinks it's going to go because nobody can predict the future, for one thing.

CALLER: That's true.

RUSH: Thank you. So what's happening now is that the very enemy that blew us up on 9/11 is facing us in Iraq. We can't cave in defeat and run out of there and say, "Hey guess what, we won, we got Saddam." We are going to be setting ourselves up for future disasters. We will never be able to have any other nation trust us as an ally when we have to go in there again. If we pull out of there before we take care of this, Mike, we're just going to have to do it sometime later at greater cost.

CALLER: Are we ever going to take care of it, though? How long do you think we're going to have to be there to take care of it?

RUSH: Mike, you can't possibly be a Republican.

CALLER: I am.

RUSH: You can't be Republican.

CALLER: Oh, I am definitely Republican.

RUSH: You sound just like a Democrat.

CALLER: No, but seriously, Rush, how long do we have to stay there?

RUSH: As long as it takes.

CALLER: How long?

RUSH: As long as it takes. It is very serious. This is the United States of America at war with Islamofascists. Just like your job, you do everything you have to do, whatever it takes to get it done, if you take it seriously.

CALLER: So then you say we need to stay there forever?

RUSH: No, Bill -- (Laughing) or Mike. I'm sorry. I'm confusing you with the guy from Texas.

CALLER: I used to be military, okay, and I am a Republican.

RUSH: Yeah.

CALLER: And I do listen to you, but --

RUSH: Right, I know. And I, by the way, used to walk on the moon.

CALLER: How long do we have to stay there?

RUSH: You're not listening to what I say. You can't possibly be a Republican. I'm answering every question; it's not what you want to hear, and so it's not even penetrating your little wall of armor you've got built up. I said we stay to get the job done, as long as it takes. I didn't say forever. Nothing takes forever. That's not possible, Bill. Mike. Whatever. Nobody lives forever, no situation lasts forever, everything ends. We determine how do we want it to end, in our favor or in our defeat? With people like you in charge, who want to put a timeline on everything -- do you ever get anything done in your life? Or do you say, "Well, I wanted to have this done by now, and it's not, so screw it"? You don't live your life that way. Well, hell, you might, I don't know. But the limitations that you want to impose here are senseless, and they, frankly, portray no evidence that you are a Republican. Another Mike. This one in Olympia, Washington. Welcome to the EIB Network. Hello.

CONTD

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #28 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-03-2007, 01:44 AM
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CONTD

CALLER: Hi, Rush. Thanks for taking my call.

RUSH: You bet.

CALLER: I have a retort to Mike in Chicago, because I am serving in the American military, in the Army. I've been serving for 14 years, very proudly.

RUSH: Thank you, sir.

CALLER: I'm one of the few that joined the Army to serve my country, I'm proud to say, not for the money or anything like that. What I would like to retort to is that, what these people don't understand, is if we pull out of Iraq right now, which is not possible because of all the stuff that's over there, it would take us at least a year to pull everything back out of Iraq, then Iraq itself would collapse and we'd have to go right back over there within a year or so.

RUSH: There's a lot more than that that they don't understand. The next guy that calls here I'm going to ask them, "What is the imperative of pulling out? What's in it for the United States to pull out?" I don't think they have an answer for that other than, "When's he going to bring the troops home? Keep the troops safe," whatever.

CALLER: Yeah.

RUSH: It's not possible intellectually to follow these people.

CALLER: No, it's not. And what's really funny is they never talk to real soldiers. They pull these soldiers that come up out of the blue and spout to the media.

RUSH: The phony soldiers.

CALLER: Phony soldiers. If you talk to any real soldier and they're proud to serve, they want to be over in Iraq, they understand their sacrifice and they're willing to sacrifice for the country.

RUSH: They joined to be in Iraq.

CALLER: A lot of people.

RUSH: You know where you're going these days, the last four years, if you sign up. The odds are you're going there or Afghanistan, or somewhere.

CALLER: Exactly, sir. My other comment, my original comment, was a retort to Jill about the fact we didn't find any weapons of mass destruction. Actually, we have found weapons of mass destruction in chemical agents that terrorists have been using against us for a while now. I've done two tours in Iraq, I just got back in June, and there are many instances of insurgents not knowing what they're using in their IEDs. They're using mustard artillery rounds, VX artillery rounds in their IEDs. Because they didn't know what they were using, they didn't do it right, and so it didn't really hurt anybody. But those munitions are over there. It's a huge desert. If they bury it somewhere, we're never going to find it.

RUSH: Well, that's a moot point for me right now.

CALLER: Right.RUSH: The weapons of mass destruction. We gotta get beyond that. We're there. We all know they were there, and Mahmoud even admitted it in one of his speeches here talking about Saddam using the poison mustard gas or whatever it is on his own people. But that's moot. What's more important is all this is taking place now in the midst of the surge working, and all of these anti-war Democrats are getting even more hell-bent on pulling out of there, which means that success on the part of you and your colleagues over there is a great threat to them. It's frustrating and maddening, and why they must be kept in the minority. I want to thank you, Mike, for calling. I appreciate it very much.

Here is a Morning Update that we did recently, talking about fake soldiers. This is a story of who the left props up as heroes. They have their celebrities and one of them was Army Ranger Jesse Macbeth. Now, he was a "corporal." I say in quotes. Twenty-three years old. What made Jesse Macbeth a hero to the anti-war crowd wasn't his Purple Heart; it wasn't his being affiliated with post-traumatic stress disorder from tours in Afghanistan and Iraq. No. What made Jesse Macbeth, Army Ranger, a hero to the left was his courage, in their view, off the battlefield, without regard to consequences. He told the world the abuses he had witnessed in Iraq, American soldiers killing unarmed civilians, hundreds of men, women, even children. In one gruesome account, translated into Arabic and spread widely across the Internet, Army Ranger Jesse Macbeth describes the horrors this way: "We would burn their bodies. We would hang their bodies from the rafters in the mosque."

Now, recently, Jesse Macbeth, poster boy for the anti-war left, had his day in court. And you know what? He was sentenced to five months in jail and three years probation for falsifying a Department of Veterans Affairs claim and his Army discharge record. He was in the Army. Jesse Macbeth was in the Army, folks, briefly. Forty-four days before he washed out of boot camp. Jesse Macbeth isn't an Army Ranger, never was. He isn't a corporal, never was. He never won the Purple Heart, and he was never in combat to witness the horrors he claimed to have seen. You probably haven't even heard about this. And, if you have, you haven't heard much about it. This doesn't fit the narrative and the template in the Drive-By Media and the Democrat Party as to who is a genuine war hero. Don't look for any retractions, by the way. Not from the anti-war left, the anti-military Drive-By Media, or the Arabic websites that spread Jesse Macbeth's lies about our troops, because the truth for the left is fiction that serves their purpose. They have to lie about such atrocities because they can't find any that fit the template of the way they see the US military. In other words, for the American anti-war left, the greatest inconvenience they face is the truth.END TRANSCRIPT

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #29 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-03-2007, 06:03 AM
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Take Action: Tell Congress to Dump Rush

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #30 of 38 (permalink) Old 10-03-2007, 07:02 AM
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NO! Tell Congress and each other to ignore fucking Rush and pay attention to the real issues! Quit being mesmerized by the next celebrity train wreck or who called the troops what. The guy calling them up to go to Iraq and die or get maimed while they inspire another generation of Muslims to hate America is real threat to America and the troops. Stop his policies, that should be the agenda, and let the worm Rush wriggle back into the dirt he lives in. Jim
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