Jaysus man, you whining fckin maggot....just shut up and go! - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-19-2007, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by BadBenz94
I read the article and I see the picture for what its worth. The two female officers are not strong enough to handle this kid. Second, they had too many officers trying to arrest one person. Anymore than three officers and it becomes harder to arrest a subject.

That being said, the idividual broke the law as soon as he started wailing his arms and pulling away from the officers who were trying to escort this pin head out of the auditorium.

Did he deserve to be tased? ABSOFUCKINGLUTLY! He was warned if he didnt comply that he was going to be tased, he refused and got what he had coming to him. He made this what it was, if he had just walked out, nothing would have happend. He was looking for the reponse he got by his own actions.

I myself have peppersprayed a person for not complying. Would I do it again, in a heartbeat.

My situation was a bit different as I didnt have any back up and was in a foot pusuit with a guy who stole a car. I got him to the ground but he refused to put his hands behind his back while he was lying face down in the grass. I picked up his head by the back of his hair and let the pepper spray fly. He complied after that.

And on top of that, a taser doesnt cause any injury, alot of pain(I have been hit by them before) yes, but no injury. There are many times when a person refuses to place their arms behind their backs, it will then be forced, often times resulting in strains or worse.

I understand we have different views, but this is how I see it.
A couple of points about tazing, some have been known to kill if the person has a medical condition, something the officers would not know about so the officer is not in a position to say a taser doesn't cause any injury.

Also, there is a difference in using force on a person who has been in a car theft and foot pursuit and one who has been disorderly at a political speech.

In the past, talk would have dropped this conversation to a level of cooperation. The second the first officer grabbed the protester, the officer lost control of the situation. That was the failure. Human nature took over. In a perfect world the protester would automatically submit but human nature does not always allow that to occur. You know that red mist keeps that from happening. It is up to the person in charge [police at this point] to keep the situation from escalating. They failed. Tazing was an inappropriate action, as was the swarm.

My understanding is that Tazing is used when a person is dangerous or an officer fears for their safety and needs controlled. At no time was this guy dangerous, disobedient yes, dangerous never. Discipline is the job of the judge, not a cop with a taser.

I really respect the work cops do, and know it is very stressed work but as a group I have seen their reputation drop greatly over the past couple of decades. Respect for the profession by much of society has lessened dramatically because of incidents like this where overreaction clouds an otherwise innocuous situation.

McBear,
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post #42 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-19-2007, 11:01 AM
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There are plenty of places for anyone to speak out. Hell he could hold his own forum if he wanted to and no one is going to stop him. He had to abide by the rules set forth by the school. If the school wants to change those rules so be it.
The National Media would not have been at "his own forum". This was the place to ask that kind of question.

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post #43 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-19-2007, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
Even worse, he did what he did for notoriety and profit. You might have noticed the whole obscene matter was captured on video, for use by him and his allies and on their Website. There was nothing honest about what he did and I condemn him for it. Lord knows I am not a Kerry fan and would not have said anything if some of you kookbergers hadn't decided to turn this into a cause celeb for your wacky agendas.
You are apparently unfamiliar with 21 Century grassroots media, and the definition of obscene.

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post #44 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-19-2007, 11:28 AM
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I see your view points and understand where you are coming from.

The situation was preseted by the individual. However it would have been less of scene and problem had the officer been strong enough to handle him from the get go.

Too there are many discussions about the leathality of a stun gun. There has not been conclusive evidence that it has been the cause of death. But that is not for me to determine. (although use of pepper spray and a stun gun can cause a fire to erupt, big no no)

At the point of where they were at and their inability to place him in cuffs, there were not alot of options at that point. He was refusing to do anything, so speaking to him was out of the question. In an officers arsenal they are usually relagated to an ASP(expandable baton, couldnt justify that use of force), pepper spray(although about on line with a stun gun, it usually disrupts the surrounding area due to its effects) and their gun(against the use of force continuum). So they are left with using the stun gun.

It appears it was used in dry stun method. Meaning that the pain is only felt in the area that it is placed against. If it was fired(with the two prongs penetrating the skin in different areas), then the person would be silent and unable to move for approx 5 seconds. This kid was screaming the whole time.

And yes the respect for officers has dropped, through our own faults , the speediness of the media(being bombarded with news we normally would not have heard about even 10 years ago. The same reason my wife thinks its more dangerous today to let our son out and play even though the statistics show otherwise) and the poor job of parenting as of late. Kids in general are showing less and less respect to anyone.


And yes he had the media at his beck and call so to speak, but he failed to abide by the rules.

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Last edited by BadBenz94; 09-19-2007 at 11:30 AM.
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post #45 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-19-2007, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadBenz94
I see your view points and understand where you are coming from.

The situation was preseted by the individual. However it would have been less of scene and problem had the officer been strong enough to handle him from the get go.

Too there are many discussions about the leathality of a stun gun. There has not been conclusive evidence that it has been the cause of death. But that is not for me to determine. (although use of pepper spray and a stun gun can cause a fire to erupt, big no no)

At the point of where they were at and their inability to place him in cuffs, there were not alot of options at that point. He was refusing to do anything, so speaking to him was out of the question. In an officers arsenal they are usually relagated to an ASP(expandable baton, couldnt justify that use of force), pepper spray(although about on line with a stun gun, it usually disrupts the surrounding area due to its effects) and their gun(against the use of force continuum). So they are left with using the stun gun.

It appears it was used in dry stun method. Meaning that the pain is only felt in the area that it is placed against. If it was fired(with the two prongs penetrating the skin in different areas), then the person would be silent and unable to move for approx 5 seconds. This kid was screaming the whole time.

And yes the respect for officers has dropped, through our own faults , the speediness of the media(being bombarded with news we normally would not have heard about even 10 years ago. The same reason my wife thinks its more dangerous today to let our son out and play even though the statistics show otherwise) and the poor job of parenting as of late. Kids in general are showing less and less respect to anyone.


And yes he had the media at his beck and call so to speak, but he failed to abide by the rules.
The size, strength of the officer was what I posted in my first post. That was where control was lost. My bet the situation would not have escalated had it not been for that and we would not be talking about it.

I have two close friends who are cops and their frustration with lack of respect is really getting to them. And I fully agree with why your wife says. I think this "every child is special" where they are treated as the center of the Universe has lead to much of this. The media and internet doesn't help. Shows that show confrontation and disrespect just fuel the behavior.

And maybe they just don't teach these kids how to protest any more. I know how to make my point but also not disrupt in the process. I have only once had a microphone turned off on me. That was when they found my very booming voice is capable of filling pretty much any room without yelling.

So you and I have a new job. You teach the mini-cops how to deal with political protesters, I will teach this new generation of political protesters how to get their point across without getting tazed.

McBear,
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post #46 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-19-2007, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by deathrattle
Yeah, who the fuck cares about the right to free speech anyway? And cops are entitled to beat up on folks-it's what the badge is for, right?
Also, it is FUN to beat on someone's head with a stick like playing the marimba.

You forgot that.

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post #47 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-19-2007, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by slybydesignw210
No Im saying this has alot more to do with what some are lead to believe. Speak when spoken to. Walk on the right. ect.....you get the picture. There is power in numbers, but you can break some one down by saying one is not allowed to aggressively take action on a subject. Bush kills 10s of 1,000s of people and he sits pretty, this kid speaks longer then needed and spends a night in jail. Logical
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post #48 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-19-2007, 12:06 PM
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His "prior similar" was standing in the street with a "Harry Died" protest sign

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk
As w/ any freedom, there a requirement to act responsibly. That punk was acting irresponsibly and was treated appropriately.
Naaah, actually, judging by what has been revealed about his past, he is really just an extremely immature attention whore, who is very impressed with himself.

And then things went off the rails when his latest stunt did not amuse a bunch of extremely badly trained police officers who were right there at the time.

Jim
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post #49 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-19-2007, 12:27 PM
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In other Florida Tazing News

In more Florida Tazing news, we have this...

I think even Barney could have figured out how to deal with this one, knives and all. Someone had to have a mosquito net handy.


Wheelchair-Bound Woman Dies After Being Shocked With Taser 10 Times

POSTED: 7:13 am EDT September 19, 2007
UPDATED: 9:35 am EDT September 19, 2007


CLAY COUNTY, Fla. -- A Clay County woman's family said it's seeking justice after their loved one died shortly after being shocked 10 times with Taser guns during a confrontation with police.

The family of 56-year-old Emily Delafield said it would take the Green Cove Springs Police Department to court, according to a WJXT-TV report.

In April 2006, officers with the police department said they were called to a disturbance at a home in the 400 block of Harrison Street just before 5 p.m.

In a 911 call made to the Green Cove Springs, Delafield can be heard telling a dispatcher that she believed she was in danger:

Dispatcher: And what's the problem?

Delafield: My sister is waiting on my property.

Dispatcher: Your what?

Delafield: My sister (inaudible) is on my property trying to harm me.

Officers said they arrived to find Delafield in a wheelchair, armed with two knives and a hammer. Police said the woman was swinging the weapons at family members and police.

Within an hour of her call to 911, Delafield, a wheelchair-bound woman documented to have mental illness, was dead.

Family attorney Rick Alexander said Delafield's death could have been prevented and that there are four things that jump out at him about the case.

"One, she's in a wheelchair. Two, she's schizophrenic. Three, they're using a Taser on a person that's in a wheelchair, and then four is that they tasered her 10 times for a period of like two minutes," Alexander said.

According to a police report, one of the officers used her Taser gun nine times for a total of 160 seconds and the other officer discharged his Taser gun once for a total of no more than five seconds.

A medical examiner found Delafield died from hypertensive heart disease and cited the Taser gun shock as a contributing factor, the report said. On her death certificate, the medical examiner ruled Delafield's death a homicide.

The family said it plans to sue the Green Coves Springs Police Department now that it has all the reports regarding their loved one's death.

"We're going to try to compensate the estate and the family and try to get justice," Alexander said.

He said he believes the evidence weighs heavily in favor of Delafield's family and that justice will be served.

"I think that this evidence is going to show, along with some of the evidence we've collected outside of here, that there is no reason Emily Delafield should have died that day," Alexander said.

He said he plans to file a notice to sue sometime before the end of the year.

Wheelchair-Bound Woman Dies After Being Shocked With Taser 10 Times - Spotlight News Story - WKMG Orlando

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post #50 of 107 (permalink) Old 09-19-2007, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
one of the officers used her Taser gun nine times for a total of 160 seconds and the other officer discharged his Taser gun once for a total of no more than five seconds.
Interesting article, but what I find interesting is the the Taser(at least the one manufactured by Taser international?) you can only disperse the shock in 5 second interval regardless of how long you hold the trigger. So in essence he would have had to pull the trigger 32 times!!!(http://www.taser.com/SiteCollectionD...X26E-001-H.pdf)

IMHO, this is actually where I would have used the ASP instead of the pepperspray or Taser to disarm the woman. Because with either of the other senarios(pepper or taser) she runs the risk of hurting herself while being incapcitated. But hindsight is always 20/20.

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When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
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