Fed veteran Alan Greenspan lambasts George W Bush - Page 3 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #21 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-15-2007, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
First of all, the national debt has not, does not and will not make a dime's worth of difference in anyone's life. Second, the continuing strength of our national Bush-economy will continue to erode the debt over time. As long as the President continues to push for a reduction in the national deficit by offering balanced budgets the debt will take care of itself, Chicken-Little!
To START, we will be PAYING $600BILLION in tax dollars to fund the INTEREST ONLY on that $5Trillion National Debt [just W's part] from now on as long as we don't touch the principle. That makes much more than a dime's difference in EVERY taxpayer's life.

Second, the continued strength of the Bush economy is still running at a DEFICIT, how can it pay the DEBT if it can't generate a SURPLUS?

A balanced budget will not reduce the DEBT one cent. Only SURPLUS budgets can reduce the National DEBT.

Get it?

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post #22 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-15-2007, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
That's HaHaHavard to you dummy...
Home of the Fighting Obfuscators! Gooooooooooooooooo F O !


I tried, really.



Really.

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post #23 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-15-2007, 10:42 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mcbear
A balanced budget will not reduce the DEBT one cent. Only SURPLUS budgets can reduce the National DEBT.

Get it?
I have to admit, I felt a bit like the Aflac duck in the Yogi Berra commercial as I read Jayhawk's take on eliminating the national debt....


"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #24 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-16-2007, 05:55 AM
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Originally Posted by isthisdave
So when, how, and who, pays the bill for this miracle of an economic turn around?

Jayhawk doesn't care itd, because he will be worm food long before the true impact of that level of debt will 'come home to roost', and before that he will be oblivious due to his advancing senility.
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post #25 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-16-2007, 06:47 AM
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Then he should man up, and say so. Silly me, to have suspected any sort of substance behind such shrill bravado.
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post #26 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-16-2007, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
You really ought to study up a bit before making silly statements like that. Dr. Paul wants the Federal Reserve abolished and has introduced legislation to that effect rather recently. How in the world does that put him in lockstep with Mr. Greenspan? Read the link -- it won't kill you to learn a little something new now and then.
Mr. Greenspan calls himself a "lifelong libertarian Republican," which I believe puts him in lockstep w/ Mr. Paul! Based on Greenspan's history at the Fed, I also believe he would probably vote to abolish it today. He spent so much time there screwing the place and our national economy up that I think he now believes the Fed should go. It is like the kid who has so badly screwed up his car that he now hates it, not because he screwed it up but because it's now viewed as a bad car.

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post #27 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-16-2007, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mormit
So which is it???

Deficit is not a problem?
or....
As long as the president pushes to reduce the deficit , we are fine?

You're talking out both sides dude.

Greenspan uses words that are more than a sylable or two long so I suppose I can't fault you in not understanding. He (Greenspan, dude) was also appointed by this Clinton loving old dude named Reagan. Now check this. Reagan proposed a balanced budget amandment....how gay this that??? Bush didn't waste his time pushing to balance the budget like Reagan. No! He wants same same sex marraige banned under an amendment.

You might not be bright but take this lesson home. Bush and the Republican Congress ran up our national credit card to such countries as communist China. Reagan appointee Greenspan is calling foul.
Neither the national debt nor the annual deficit are a real problem for anyone. The debt has been much worse in our past and guess what? We still have the strogest economy in our history. Of course, a few elements of the many many measures are down at the moment, the vast majority of the components of our economy are strongly positive. And as far as him not loving clinton, check this out: Ex-Fed chair praises Clinton...

And here's a little something for you to chew-on vis-a-vis the debt:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg debt v gdp.jpg (44.8 KB, 39 views)

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post #28 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-16-2007, 11:24 AM Thread Starter
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Hard to believe that the most prominent and respected person to ever head the the Fed could be detached enough to see the light in regard to its abolishment. And yes, I am aware of Mr. Greenspan's respectable stance as a Goldwater conservative, which does cast him in the similar light to that of Dr. Paul to some extent. In any case, the man certainly has some valid points in regard to the Bush administration's wanton abandonment of fiscal responsibility, as evidenced by an utter and complete lack of Congressional oversight and the accompanying absence of the imposition of veto power by Mr. Bush for six years. How do you explain this kind of prolonged malfeasance?

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #29 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-16-2007, 11:26 AM Thread Starter
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"GDP purportedly is now growing at 3.5%, and everyone seems pleased. What we fail to understand is how much government entitlement spending contributes to the increase in the GDP. Rebuilding infrastructure destroyed by hurricanes, which simply gets us back to even, is considered part of GDP growth. Wall Street profits and salaries, pumped up by the Fed's increase in money, also contribute to GDP statistical growth. Just buying military weapons that contribute nothing to the well being of our citizens, sending money down a rat hole, contributes to GDP growth! Simple price increases caused by Fed monetary inflation contribute to nominal GDP growth. None of these factors represent any kind of real increases in economic output. So we should not carelessly cite misleading GDP figures which don't truly reflect what is happening in the economy. Bogus GDP figures explain in part why so many people are feeling squeezed despite our supposedly booming economy."

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #30 of 71 (permalink) Old 09-16-2007, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
Make that strongest GLOBAL Economy, NOT strongest US Economy. And the $5Trillion Bushie CHARGED is a tax increase of record proportion that is passed to every tax payer for life.

Note our previous economy was cooking along fine with surplus budgets [in a Republican Congress], similar interest rates to today [those 10% home loans were back in Bush1, not Clinton].

I would ask you to back up your comments "It does when it helps turn an economy headed straight into the dumpster around! ...and makes it into the strongest economy in U.S. history!" but well, you don't have a fact to pull from ANYWHERE for that.
1. Taxes are much lower today than they have been in decades.

2. Any idiot can find a time, at some point, and say it was "better then," but to state that the "previous economy" (which one exactly was "previous?") was "cooking along fine," is ridiculous.

3. Spending to shore-up a Clinton/Greenspan economy headed straight into the dumper is smart spending, even if it temporarily increases the deficit and/or debt. And the best part is that IT WORKED! Even after Greenspan burst the tech bubble and created a depression, the terrorists attacked us on 9/11, the Enron scandal created a crisis of confidence in all of our businesses, Katrina damn near blew N.O. away, etc., etc., President Bush was able to pull our economy out of a tailspin. And if we had to borrow to help that process along, so be it. The consequences of not doing so are so much worse I can't believe even you leftwing loooonies are complaining.

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