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post #21 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-15-2007, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by isthisdave
Well now, that's remarkably tolerant and understanding attitude on your part.

I for one don't consider trying to help a country to come out from living under a dictator, and a bunch of warlords and radical clerics a national embarrassment.

Please explain the relevance of your response.

Please explain the nature of your complaint.

Perhaps were a lesson to be learned living in Baghdad, it would best be learned by the lying pack of dogs that created the mess.

That's no way to talk about your heroes, the Clintons. If they had done their job when they were in office, maybe we wouldn't be there now.

You have no idea who my heroes are. Clinton's behavior was a national embarrassment, no doubt. And the command paralysis it engendered was inexcusable. That said, Bush's TWAT has nothing to do with Iraq, never did, never will. No obfuscation on your part will change that.
What does Bush's TWAT have to do with anything? If team Clinton had done their jobs, OBL would have been dead or in prison, and there would most likely not have been a reason to invade Iraq. You might want to keep in mind that the UN had more than one or two sanctions against Sadam, and he defied them all. In keeping with that train of thought, the French and Germans were helping him rearm.


Let Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeld, et al live without electricity or water.

Why should they do that? Things are getting better in Iraq on a daily basis, even the left wing press admits that now.

Better? What constitutes better? I'll believe things are better when US troops begin returning home in a wholesale fashion.
That of course is only an OPINION, and not a very smart one at that. The surge is working, and even the left leaning media has said that, so it must be true. Pull the troops out now, and you will get the defeat that you seem to be begging for.

As far as the electricity and water are concerned most of the completely overhauled and rebuilt systems have been turned over to the Iraqi's, and they seem to be having trouble finding their offices and workshops. In other words they don't seem to want to maintain and operate those systems, but then again that would be our fault wouldn't it.....

What motivation would you have to travel through a veritable war zone to a facility that may or may not be a target of sabotage on any given day. Facilities we have never been able to secure, much less protect.
How about a paycheck? The facilities seem to be quite secure, if they weren't you can rest assured that the press would let you know that, and they haven't have they?


Let them wonder if the next trip to market ends with an explosion.
Let them worry about the son in line to apply for a job as a police officer.
Let them hold their children home from school for fear of attacks.

Do you wonder if you're going to slip in the bathtub, or fall down the stairs?

After a response such as this, you are no longer allowed to hold the stupid sign. You may however, tattoo it to your forehead.
After the comments you have made above, you can be first in line to have Kat Von Dee staple the tattoo outline to your clearly thick skull. When you’re finished I'll consider it....

Have you ever lived in a war zone?

Thankfully, no. And hopefully, our next Chief Executive will recognize, and forswear, the folly of corporate empire as foreign policy, allowing US forces to return to US soil, providing true homeland security.
That's the typical cry of the pacifist and isolationists in this country. Lots of folks cried the same thing prior to 9/11, and look where it got us.


Let them relearn the value of life lessons they so obviously have discounted in their rush to corporate empire.

What the heck is that supposed to mean?

Exactly what it says, in plain American English.
Oh, OK, then it means nothing.......

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
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post #22 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-15-2007, 11:48 AM
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Bruce said:What does Bush's TWAT have to do with anything? If team Clinton had done their jobs, OBL would have been dead or in prison, and there would most likely not have been a reason to invade Iraq. You might want to keep in mind that the UN had more than one or two sanctions against Sadam, and he defied them all. In keeping with that train of thought, the French and Germans were helping him rearm.

So what you're saying is that we would have not invaded Iraq if OBL was in prison or dead? So we went to Iraq because of OBL?
How about Saddam's defiance? You're saying it was towards the UN so why did WE invade his country rather than having or letting the UN sort it out? It was a UN problem by your own words... Are we the UN enforcer?

Come on Bruce just admit what the real reason for us for invading Iraq was/is, I know you're smarter than this! OBL? UN?... the truth Bruce, the truth...
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post #23 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-15-2007, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BruceR
If team Clinton had done their jobs, OBL would have been dead or in prison, and there would most likely not have been a reason to invade Iraq.
Absolutely right.

And had team Shrub been intelligent enough to have learned from their predeccessor's failings, things would be quite different.

The Taliban would not be enjoying a resurgence.

Bin Laden could very well have been eliminated.

The US would have enjoyed the diplomatic capital to deal more effectively with Iran, North Korea, and a Saddam ruled Iraq.

32,000 US casualties would not be dead, maimed or wounded.

Any number of Iraqi civilians would still be alive.

The Bush administration cares not one iota for any loss of life but for those American lives that may cost votes. Iraqi civilians are on the wrong side of that equation.

Unfortunately for Bush and the Republican party, 3,700 US dead, along with the lies that caused those deaths, have precluded any opportunity they had to better the state of our Union.
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post #24 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-15-2007, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprof
So what you're saying is that we would have not invaded Iraq if OBL was in prison or dead? So we went to Iraq because of OBL?
How about Saddam's defiance? You're saying it was towards the UN so why did WE invade his country rather than having or letting the UN sort it out? It was a UN problem by your own words... Are we the UN enforcer?
Apparently, yes we are. If the UN had done it's job, I see no reason why we would be in Iraq without more help then we have at this point.
Who arranged for Gulf I ? It sure wasn't the UN although they made a lot of noise. They did little if anything. I see no difference here and now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drewprof
Come on Bruce just admit what the real reason for us for invading Iraq was/is, I know you're smarter than this! OBL? UN?... the truth Bruce, the truth...
It would appear that the all knowing, all seeing, Drewprof has all the answers. Please enlighten us.

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
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"The only people who have quick answers don't have the responsibility of making the decisions."
Justice Clarence Thomas
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post #25 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-15-2007, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce R.
Apparently, yes we are. If the UN had done it's job, I see no reason why we would be in Iraq without more help then we have at this point.
Who arranged for Gulf I ? It sure wasn't the UN although they made a lot of noise. They did little if anything. I see no difference here and now.


It would appear that the all knowing, all seeing, Drewprof has all the answers. Please enlighten us.
Thanks to Germanstar, here is one reason:
Quote:
"
AMERICA’s elder statesman of finance, Alan Greenspan, has shaken the White House by declaring that the prime motive for the war in Iraq was oil.

In his long-awaited memoir, to be published tomorrow, Greenspan, a Republican whose 18-year tenure as head of the US Federal Reserve was widely admired, will also deliver a stinging critique of President George W Bush’s economic policies.

However, it is his view on the motive for the 2003 Iraq invasion that is likely to provoke the most controversy. “I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil,” he says.

Greenspan, 81, is understood to believe that Saddam Hussein posed a threat to the security of oil supplies in the Middle East.

Britain and America have always insisted the war had nothing to do with oil. Bush said the aim was to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction and end Saddam’s support for terrorism."
Now you tell us Bruce is Greenspan full of shit too? What does he know eh?

Back to the UN, so if we feel like the UN did not do its job then according to you we must spring to action, right? How many UN resolutions have been ignored (by many countries) and why is it we are not on the ball on all of them? Why don't we just remove the UN and put ourselves as the World Police eh Bruce? Are you willing to pay for it? Cherry picking maybe?
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post #26 of 26 (permalink) Old 09-16-2007, 11:25 AM
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