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post #41 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-07-2007, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by picklesam
has arrived in my country to meet with my dumb arse prime minister...
We have a metal fence barracade in Sydney because of all the morons who feel that their right to protest is more important than everyone elses right to be walk freely in Sydney. The protesters are nothing but a bunch of sexually deprived paid antagonists looking for their photo in the newspaper. Their only cause is to see how much money they can make from the campaigners who are backed and funded by the far left of Australian politics. Recruiting takes place at college campus and several students have already come forward with reports on how they depend on these kinds of rallies to pay for their books.

If a cause is truly noble and the outcome is defined then it comes at the cost of the general population. Not only do these rental-crowds amount to a detuned gay-march but most of them have no idea why they are attending. That is the essential arrogance and stupidity of their convictions.

Don't assume that all Australians are gullible and mercinary. Some of us, the 80% minority, go about the business of being productive and useful to society. Certainly the solutions we the minority have provide more comfort to the lifestyle of the protesters than their solutions do for the rest of us.

I saw the press conference GW Bush made initially in Australia and it was by far a greater insight into his character and conviction than what we normally get in Australia. The small video bytes dont really say much at all. The leader of a global power clearly has far more on his plate than irrelevant college students do.

Disrespecting your elected head is by far a greater insult to your national indentity than any such remark coming from an ill informed detractor in the Middle-East.

Modz ... enjoy the difference. www.benzmodz.com

Last edited by miroj; 09-07-2007 at 06:30 PM.
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post #42 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-07-2007, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by miroj
Disrespecting your elected head is by far a greater insult to your national indentity than any such remark coming from an ill informed detractor in the Middle-East.
Being in our dented tits aside, the ability to protest the actions of an American Administration is the utmost in celebration of our democracy. The ability, and willingness to hold our leadership to higher standards than they are practicing [from either party] is what has made this democracy strong enough to withstand even the most inept leader or the strongest adversary.

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post #43 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-07-2007, 08:53 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
Being in our dented tits aside, the ability to protest the actions of an American Administration is the utmost in celebration of our democracy. The ability, and willingness to hold our leadership to higher standards than they are practicing [from either party] is what has made this democracy strong enough to withstand even the most inept leader or the strongest adversary.
Protesting is another way for society to regress and throw shit. I get far more impact from a letter to my local member than any person will ever get being annoying.

Protesting is the intelligent mans last resort and the fools natural choice.

If a nobody like me can grab the attention of decision makers then it stands to reason that content (in thought) has more leverage than discontent (in action).

Society functions on the "win + win". When will the idealists ever learn that.

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post #44 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-07-2007, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miroj
Protesting is another way for society to regress and throw shit. I get far more impact from a letter to my local member than any person will ever get being annoying.

Protesting is the intelligent mans last resort and the fools natural choice.

If a nobody like me can grab the attention of decision makers then it stands to reason that content (in thought) has more leverage than discontent (in action).

Society functions on the "win + win". When will the idealists ever learn that.
Dude, you need to read up on the history of the struggles for women's suffrage, the labor movement and the civil rights movement. Protests were key to each of those successful endeavors. You have a rather truncated conception of civic engagement and responsibility.

For bonus points, read up on the Stonewall Riots. Those folks made shit happen, and it had nothing to do with writing letters to "leaders".
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post #45 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-07-2007, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Zeitgeist
Dude, you need to read up on the history of the struggles for women's suffrage, the labor movement and the civil rights movement. Protests were key to each of those successful endeavors. You have a rather truncated conception of civic engagement and responsibility.

For bonus points, read up on the Stonewall Riots. Those folks made shit happen, and it had nothing to do with writing letters to "leaders".
I know that the struggle for equity in society is more than adequately demonstrated in paintings which most people dont decode at all.

Clearly there are two passages in human experience. Active and passive. It is believed and accepted without question, by the gullible, that activity is something visible, noisy and chaotic. That action is a blitz and that it bends rivers and moves mountains.

The inequity women faced are a fine example of how the inner qualities of a human being can overcome unreasonable expectations. It has more recently been hijacked into a movement which makes women act, feel and live like men, but without the enormous rewards of family life. Even later than that somehow not having a career and children at the same time is some kind of lesser life and a compromise.

After 40,000 generations of human endeavour, it is more than apparent that society is forged not by personal gain but instead safe environments for the development of people, ideas and resources. The USA is the primary example of such a society and furthermore it has allowed all races and gender(s) to participate. Anyone who thinks that being a protester and bleeding in the street is some kind of powerful statement needs to read the archives of the Vatican where the world was at one time controlled by the Pope in Rome.

The favours which were granted in the years 1400-1900 are formative to the power of countries as they are today. The microcosm of street brawling is somewhat minor colmpared to controlling an entire GDP of a country. All done in ink and without so much as a purse being thrown at a policeman.

You can stir the front page of newspaper by making a noise, but if you stir the powerful in a way that moves them into action the result is definitive. I think though that governments are the tools of compromise and some of the Irish "troubles" were only ever going to be violent. That seems obvious from the policies in place and clearly we now live in a time where political will over people is no longer tolerated - we have the women to thank for that.

Modz ... enjoy the difference. www.benzmodz.com

Last edited by miroj; 09-07-2007 at 10:55 PM.
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post #46 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-07-2007, 10:47 PM
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Whoa...[steps back a pace]...buh bye.
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post #47 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-07-2007, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by miroj
I know that the struggle for equity in society is more than adequately demonstrated in paintings which most people dont decode at all.

Clearly there are two passages in human experience. Active and passive. It is believed and accepted without question, by the gullible, that activity is something visible, noisy and chaotic. That action is a blitz and that it bends rivers and moves mountains.

The inequity women faced are a fine example of how the inner qualities of a human being can overcome unreasonable expectations. It has more recently been hijacked into a movement which makes women act, feel and live like men, but without the enormous rewards of family life. Even later than that somehow not having a career and children at the same time is some kind of lesser life and a compromise.

After 40,000 generations of human endeavour, it is more than apparent that society is forged not by personal gain but instead safe environments for the development of people, ideas and resources. The USA is the primary example of such a society and furthermore it has allowed all races and gender(s) to participate.

You can stir the front page of newspaper by making a noise, but if you stir the powerful in a way that moves them into action the result is definitive.
Good luck with that. Your concepts might work if you are trying to get garbage collection changed from Tuesday to Thursday but when you are trying to stop a war or give women equal rights or blacks equal rights or equal pay for equal work or no taxation without representation or stop deforestation it takes a bit more than a letter to your local council member. It requires a thundering herd just to get attention.

No one ever gained a right or freedom by being passive, EVER.

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post #48 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-08-2007, 03:59 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear

No one ever gained a right or freedom by being passive, EVER.
And which one of these pro-active idealists ever made a difference in politics ? We have had the framework for 2000 years and not one John Lennon or Groucho Marx in office. The type of men who forge society on the anvil of public opinion are those prone to listening not shouting.

After having the chance to hear Bush speak for longer than 10 seconds I have come to the conclusion that he is listening and aware of the argument according to many points of view. Why that makes him wrong is not clear. He inherited his problems from the people and by not pleasing all of them he is suddenly held accountable.

Let's for example have "NO OIL DAY" and see how many people don't even make it to work or otherwise become totally incapable of living the life they have now. This includes making this forum redundant by virtue of all Mercedes cars being held in storage for that day.

Clearly the way forward is to build new systems at the same time as the old systems are in place. Whilst I was in Boston in 1999 I had the opportunity to observe what happens when you build an underground road and keep the existing road at the same time. It was chaos in the extreme. Now amplify that by a global population and ask yourself if change is visible, cheap and immediate whilst everything old is in place and new systems are being brought into the foreground.

Change is slow because the amount of work is overwhelming. Society is so finely tuned and the cash supply so limited that 5% interest would send >50% of the marketplace into a tailspin and crash speculative development. Speculation into the future is in fact driven by new income streams from innovation. Unfortunately, until those business models are in place and making money there will be no nett shift in the profile of global business relations.

After taking into consideration how change is enabled I feel that education is the key. That includes simple solutions for complex problems which come from research.

The one-laptop-per-child project will empower society far more than someone who causes disruption, makes noise and conspires to mislead those around him as to the true political value of leadership. The really sad thing is that hands and people are needed in these places but that would be too much like hard work.

After looking at the news footage tonight of the anti-bush protesters in Sydney I have come to realise they probably ran home to see which TV channel they are on. Not one "serious" protester failed to produce a goofy face, thinking perhaps that may raise their profile enough to be on TV looking like a clown and at the same time proving how deep their convictions are.

Let's see some of these activists roll up their sleeves ....... (as if)

Modz ... enjoy the difference. www.benzmodz.com

Last edited by miroj; 09-08-2007 at 04:20 AM.
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post #49 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-08-2007, 04:24 AM
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

In a democracy even minorities are permitted to have their say, including you.

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post #50 of 54 (permalink) Old 09-08-2007, 04:30 AM
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Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

In a democracy even minorities are permitted to have their say, including you.

Whoa.....the OT is a democracy? I thought it was a dictatorship.......
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