Originally Posted by Jayhawk
Here's what he said about Vietnam: Whatever your position is on that debate, one unmistakable legacy of Vietnam is that the price of America's withdrawal was paid by millions of innocent citizens whose agonies would add to our vocabulary new terms like "boat people," "re-education camps," and "killing fields."
This is unmitigated bullshit. How many innocent citizens did we kill, and would we have killed, maimed or otherwise forced to endure an entire lifetime living in a war zone so we could maintain our fight against the pending doom of the Domino Theory endlessly? And, if you are going to invoke "boat people" at least be honest about what made up the group - it was refugees from Laos, Cambodia and South Vietnam, and I have yet to see an estimate of these people that exceeds 2 million, about half the number of refugees who have fled Iraq since our invasion. And the "killing fields" that I heard of were in Cambodia, not South Vietnam, and were put to an end by the unified Vietnam armed forces after we left. As for "re-education camps" what do we think the South Vietnamese shitbirds we put in power were doing to captured North Vietnamese types, anyway? This is a distorted view of the fact that we had to leave the way we did to let the country of Vietnam come together. There is no telling how many more people would have been displaced, killed, or tortured had we stayed, including the number of Americans.
Originally Posted by Jayhawk
.There was another price to our withdrawal from Vietnam, and we can hear it in the words of the enemy we face in today's struggle -- those who came to our soil and killed thousands of citizens on September the 11th, 2001. In an interview with a Pakistani newspaper after the 9/11 attacks, Osama bin Laden declared that "the American people had risen against their government's war in Vietnam. And they must do the same today."
His number two man, Zawahiri, has also invoked Vietnam. In a letter to al Qaeda's chief of operations in Iraq, Zawahiri pointed to "the aftermath of the collapse of the American power in Vietnam and how they ran and left their agents."
Zawahiri later returned to this theme, declaring that the Americans "know better than others that there is no hope in victory. The Vietnam specter is closing every outlet." Here at home, some can argue our withdrawal from Vietnam carried no price to American credibility -- but the terrorists see it differently.
We must remember the words of the enemy. We must listen to what they say. Bin Laden has declared that "the war [in Iraq] is for you or us to win. If we win it, it means your disgrace and defeat forever." Iraq is one of several fronts in the war on terror -- but it's the central front -- it's the central front for the enemy that attacked us and wants to attack us again. And it's the central front for the United States and to withdraw without getting the job done would be devastating.
More unmitigated bullshit. The lesson we need to take away from Vietnam and now Iraq because one lesson wasn't enough, is to stop invading countries that do not threaten us. Vietnam was never a threat. We left and nothing bad happened to the US. The Domino Theory fell apart. Stop being tempted to play war, like it was a Nintendo game. Stop sniffing the asses of the Pentagon's weapons platform sales managers and believing in things like "clean" wars, where no Americans die, and we only kill the bad guys with our fancy cruise missiles and guided bombs. The targets in Iraq cost a tiny fraction of the cost of the weapons we use to destroy them. And our ground forces are relatively poorly equipped because for the last half a century we have been engaged in investing in the Nintendo game war fighting toys that don't involve providing the tools our ground forces need.
Spinning Ossamma's words to support Bush's agenda is convenient for Bush and his cheerleaders. Unfortunately, it is another case of you tough guys showing your thin skin and inability to stay focussed on the target. Which should be to protect America and we are much less able to do that today than we were before invading Iraq. Jim