Democrats Continue To Betray Americans By Condoning Perjury - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-19-2007, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
By all appearances, this has already happened? WTF are they waiting for, a delivery of attachable bollocks?
I read in today's paper about Rove and Co. and how they dealt with Federal funds/programs/grants prior to the 2004 elections. Appears they are looking into Hatch Act violations.

My guess is that since you have a hostile AG, hostile WH [who can pardon], hostile FBI, and hostile DoJ, it requires a very long, deliberate process to insure that all the appropriate ducks are in a row before going after folks. Congressional oversight is only going to get ONE SHOT at addressing the ethics and legal violations without it looking like partisan politics and that is by proving true ethical violations, not just "we didn't like your team" stuff. I truly hope that is how they approach this.

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post #12 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-19-2007, 02:19 PM Thread Starter
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It's a question of quality. My Phelps threads are fine wine, this is cheap beer.
It was written by a leftie...doesn't that count for anything?
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post #13 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-19-2007, 04:46 PM
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I agree with mcbear. Why do it now when they will just end up like Scooter Fibby? Indict them when they get out of office. Unfortunately, the way the law now reads, they have to hand their perjury charges over to the Justice Dept. The Justice Dept then simply declines to prosecute, forcing the Congress to sue, tying it up in court. Better to wait for a Democratic Justice Dept and a Democratic Congress.

The Republicans are not interested in seeing justice done. They will block it every step of the way. Perhaps Mr. QBN should tell us where he stands on this. Does he now believe Gonzalez is guilty of perjury? If that is so, isn't the Senate GOP guilty of obstruction of justice? Isn't the GOP Justice Dept guilty of the same? Why is he not protesting that? Pretty straight up question Mr. Q, what are you interested in, political games or seeing justice done?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #14 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-19-2007, 04:56 PM
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If that is all true FTL, then if we wait pending a change in the Executive, we may find out we are waiting forever. The country elected fucking Bush twice. I think the issue has to be dealt with now and not some time in the future. A golden opportunity to force Bush's hand was passed up so the weasels could go on vacation. They could have stayed and negotiated a deal to give the Attorney General more power to deal with spying on citizens calls, if the Attorney General was not Alberto Gonzales. But they didn't. Are they trying to oust the shitbird now? Doesn't seem like it. They seem to be trying shame him into leaving, but he has made it clear he has no shame.

If "wait until after the 2008 election" is the mantra for the Democratic Party to get off their asses and do something, we are fucked. It is not a given the ticket headed by Hillary is a winner. Jim
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post #15 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-19-2007, 05:09 PM
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You want to see the son of a bitch pardoned? I want to see him in jail. He is obviously guilty of perjury. Going after him now means he won't spend a day in jail.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #16 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-19-2007, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
You want to see the son of a bitch pardoned? I want to see him in jail. He is obviously guilty of perjury. Going after him now means he won't spend a day in jail.
I just want to see him GONE from there.

Mayb e someone will wake up and time the prosecution somehow so that the conviction will occur after Bush has left office.

Even if Jim Smith is correct- and he might be - I'd hope a new Repubican president, with no connection to him, wouldn't be foolish enough to pardon him, though I could be VERY, VERY wrong about.

Jim
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post #17 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-19-2007, 05:35 PM
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If that is all true FTL, then if we wait pending a change in the Executive, we may find out we are waiting forever. The country elected fucking Bush twice. I think the issue has to be dealt with now and not some time in the future. A golden opportunity to force Bush's hand was passed up so the weasels could go on vacation. They could have stayed and negotiated a deal to give the Attorney General more power to deal with spying on citizens calls, if the Attorney General was not Alberto Gonzales. But they didn't. Are they trying to oust the shitbird now? Doesn't seem like it. They seem to be trying shame him into leaving, but he has made it clear he has no shame.

If "wait until after the 2008 election" is the mantra for the Democratic Party to get off their asses and do something, we are fucked. It is not a given the ticket headed by Hillary is a winner. Jim
Also, there is an active impeachment bill in the House that was filed a few weeks ago. Hell, the New York Times wrote an editorial on it this weekend:

The Founders Had an Idea for Handling Alberto Gonzales
New York Times Editorial

Published: August 19, 2007

William Belknap, Ulysses S. Grant’s disgraced secretary of war, is experiencing a revival. Impeached in 1876 for taking bribes, he has become the inspiration for a movement to remove Attorney General Alberto Gonzales from office. Impeachment is usually thought of as limited to presidents, but the Constitution not only allows the impeachment of Cabinet members, in Belknap’s case, it was actually done.

Impeaching Mr. Gonzales has moved beyond the hypothetical, now that Jay Inslee, Democrat of Washington, and five other prosecutors-turned-representatives have introduced a resolution to conduct an impeachment inquiry. Congress is wary, and not only because of post-Clinton impeachment hangover. The grounds set out in the Constitution are vague, and the Democrats do not want to be seen as overreaching.

Members of Congress should keep in mind, however, that the founders gave them the impeachment power for a reason — and Mr. Gonzales’s malfeasance is just the sort they were worried about.

The Constitution provides for impeachment for “treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.” Not a clear formula, but it wasn’t meant to be. Impeachment, Alexander Hamilton explained in Federalist 65, cannot be “tied down” by “strict rules, either in the delineation of the offense” by the House, or “in the construction of it” by the Senate.

The founders did not want impeachment to be undertaken so casually that, in James Madison’s words, the president and other officers effectively served at the “pleasure of the Senate.” But they also did not want to limit it to a few specific offenses. The phrase “other high crimes and misdemeanors” was intended to give Congress leeway.

Impeachment was one of the important checks and balances the founders built into the Constitution. At state ratification conventions, it was promoted as a tool for Congress to rein in any officeholder who “dares to abuse the power vested in him by the people.”

Impeachment of Mr. Gonzales would fit comfortably into the founders’ framework. No one could charge this Congress with believing that executive branch members serve at the “pleasure of the Senate” or the House. Speaker Nancy Pelosi has indicated that impeachment of President Bush is “off the table,” and there has been little talk of impeaching Vice President Dick Cheney or others in the administration.

Congress has heard extensive testimony about how Mr. Gonzales’s Justice Department has become an arm of a political party, choosing lawyers for nonpartisan positions based on politics, and bringing cases — including prosecutions that have put people in jail — to help Republicans win elections.

Mr. Gonzales’s repeated false and misleading statements to Congress are also impeachable conduct. James Iredell, whom George Washington would later appoint to the Supreme Court, told North Carolina’s ratification convention that “giving false information to the Senate” was the sort of act “of great injury to the community” that warranted impeachment.

The United States attorneys scandal is also the sort of abuse the founders worried about. Top prosecutors, most with sterling records, were apparently fired because they refused to let partisan politics guide their decisions about whether to prosecute. Madison, the father of the Constitution, noted in a speech to the first Congress that “wanton removal of meritorious officers would subject” an official to impeachment.

If the House began an impeachment inquiry, Mr. Gonzales would most likely resign rather than risk the unpleasantness of the hearings, and the ignominy of being removed. Congress should think of it as a constitutional tap on the shoulder, to let the attorney general know that the time has truly come for him to go. If Mr. Gonzales did resign, this Congress would most likely be more gracious than the one in 1876, which ignored Mr. Belknap’s hurried resignation and impeached him anyway.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #18 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-19-2007, 05:48 PM
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^^^^^^Well, there you go. That looks like enough reason to start the proceedings now.

Too bad it is a well known fact that the President will most surely pardon him.

Perhaps if Gonzalez is impeached, convicted, removed and pardoned, while Bush is still in office, he would have a pretty hard time appointing ANOTHER one that bad.

It is pretty obvious the Republican agenda puts the Karl Rove objective of partisan political interest far above all else.

If the Democrats let every offense just slide, the voters will be as disgusted with the enablers as the perpetrators.

In which case, it won't matter to many who wins next time, and it could be a Republican OR a Democrat. Whoever runs the dirtiest campaign will take it.

Jim
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post #19 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-19-2007, 06:15 PM
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Impeachment is on the table. Indictment, I'd like to see that in about 17 months. If there is any justice in this world, the current administration will suffer the same fate as that other pack of Nazis did in 1945.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #20 of 35 (permalink) Old 08-19-2007, 06:32 PM
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I wish Hunter S. Thompson was still around to write about this.

The NEOCON dream is wreckage. The horrific cost to our nation will be measured out in decades to come.

Jim
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