A tale of perfidy, the selling of soldier's lives for votes by Karl and George - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-14-2007, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar
Bush will still hold him under that umbrella, and Congress will be too cowardly to challenge him.
Thus further fragmenting everything, as evidenced by Cindy Sheehan's new challenge to Pelosi's seat.

Jim
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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-14-2007, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
Your narrative before the story is more scintillating than anything in the blathering that follows. Sadly, it's all froth and no substance.

The go-to-war vote wasn't down party lines. You Democrats couldn't sever yourself from the phallus of power long enough to do your jobs any more than the Republicans could, which was to question the intelligence rather than roll over and take it in the ass.

Liberals hate Rove because he PWN3D them for 6+ years. This is sour fucking grapes x 10,000,000,000; shooting a guy in the back as he walks out the door. You lot had your chance to "serve justice" with regard to Rove, and for any one of a million reasons you refuse to comprehend, he's been given a pass. Stick that in your pipe and smoke on it. It's not the Republican's fault that your party betrayed you.
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-14-2007, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar
Bush will still hold him under that umbrella, and Congress will be too cowardly to challenge him.
It's a great year to be indited while the 'pardoner' is still the prez.

-Marty


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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-14-2007, 06:10 PM
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The overwhelming theme here is that nearly all our politicians betrayed us, and all for their personal and party politicing, which they nearly all placed above performing the duties they swore to perform when they took office. Shame on them, and shame on us, the electorate, for letting our standards fall so low. And to think it all came about because the general population was placated with cheap junk made courtesy of exploited labor, a persistent raping of the environment and a complete lack of government regulation. Placated into believing everything was alright because the poorest of us has someone worse off struggling to make junk for us that we don't need, just to eek out a living. We are consuming nearly anything, cheap, that the world can provide, cheap. Whether we need it or not. It makes us think, since we can buy the junk, which can't be fixed when it breaks in a few months, all must ok. We are all powerful. We have the strongest economy - after all, it is those offshore slaves working for us, so we must be on top. While we are truly being betrayed by our politicians and business leaders, all for a quick buck to buy more cheap shit they don't need either. Sad. Even sadder that, with the pattern of deception and deceit for the past six years, when the Democrats gained power they did nothing. Truly pitiful. Jim
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-14-2007, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade
Probably every Congressman who voted to authorize the war, bought the line the Rove, Bush and Co. sold them.

The big mistake was thinking they were being told the truth. The knee-jerk Republican apologists tend to overlook that.

It is to the Democrats everlasting discredit that they did not hold Rove to account.

Another reason their polls are tanking faster than Bush, now.

What are you gloating about this for? It transcends party loyalties, what Rove shot in the back was the notion of what is good and right for the country...

For him, short term partisan political gain trumped everything. If some like minded Democrats got their hands on the reigns of power, and were feeling vengeful, who is to say they wouldn't use deceit and lies to give the Republicans a good strong dose of what they dished out in the first place?

Turn about is fair play, right?

Crow about it all you want, but in the end the American electorate loses because of People like Rove and his cronies.

Don't look now, but "Your" party betrayed YOU. And worse, the country, as are the Democrats by failing to hold Rove Cheney and Bush accountable.
Well stated Cascade.

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post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-14-2007, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade
Probably every Congressman who voted to authorize the war, bought the line the Rove, Bush and Co. sold them.

The big mistake was thinking they were being told the truth. The knee-jerk Republican apologists tend to overlook that.

It is to the Democrats everlasting discredit that they did not hold Rove to account.

Another reason their polls are tanking faster than Bush, now.

What are you gloating about this for? It transcends party loyalties, what Rove shot in the back was the notion of what is good and right for the country...

For him, short term partisan political gain trumped everything. If some like minded Democrats got their hands on the reigns of power, and were feeling vengeful, who is to say they wouldn't use deceit and lies to give the Republicans a good strong dose of what they dished out in the first place?

Turn about is fair play, right?

Crow about it all you want, but in the end the American electorate loses because of People like Rove and his cronies.

Don't look now, but "Your" party betrayed YOU. And worse, the country, as are the Democrats by failing to hold Rove Cheney and Bush accountable.
You do everyone involved too much credit, including the thread's author. It's disingenuous to posit that the Democrats were a bunch of hungy babies waiting to be spoon fed whatever the Rove kitchen was dishing out. There was plenty of skepticism, as alluded to in the article above, and what sealed the deal - concrete evidence? A smoking gun? No, the threat of being railroaded come election time by the Rove Republican political machine. The fear of being vulnerable to replacement because they did their jobs and acted as a check & balance of the executive.

Democrats were guilty of it. Republicans were guilty of it. There aren't any more crosses upon which to nail Republicans though. I've already made peace with the betrayal of those in the Republican party who have turned it into the modern, fascist face of liberalism - they're dead to me. What I find remarkable is that 1) people like FTL keep on whipping the dead horses they found, for faults that 2) the horses they chose continue repeating.

You also imply that Rove's modus operandi was in lies & deceit, in the name of short-term political gain. This is contradictory; were this true, upon discovery of the first 'lie' Rove told, his credibility would be shot. Explain how a liar and deceiver bent on short-term political gains manipulates bodies of legislators for decades across the state of Texas and the nation's capitol. Codswallop.

I'm not crowing about anything...I'm no great fan of Karl Rove, but I definitely appreciate the way he made marionettes of political foes and allies for quite some time. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely. I'm for term limits.

Anyone else want to step into the box and take a swing at deflecting ALL of the blame for the disastrous performance of Democrats in the past decade onto the narrow shoulders of a doughy middle-aged balding dork from Texas?
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post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-14-2007, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith
The overwhelming theme here is that nearly all our politicians betrayed us, and all for their personal and party politicing, which they nearly all placed above performing the duties they swore to perform when they took office. Shame on them, and shame on us, the electorate, for letting our standards fall so low. And to think it all came about because the general population was placated with cheap junk made courtesy of exploited labor, a persistent raping of the environment and a complete lack of government regulation. Placated into believing everything was alright because the poorest of us has someone worse off struggling to make junk for us that we don't need, just to eek out a living. We are consuming nearly anything, cheap, that the world can provide, cheap. Whether we need it or not. It makes us think, since we can buy the junk, which can't be fixed when it breaks in a few months, all must ok. We are all powerful. We have the strongest economy - after all, it is those offshore slaves working for us, so we must be on top. While we are truly being betrayed by our politicians and business leaders, all for a quick buck to buy more cheap shit they don't need either. Sad. Even sadder that, with the pattern of deception and deceit for the past six years, when the Democrats gained power they did nothing. Truly pitiful. Jim
Dead on as usual, Jim. Thanks for seeing the bigger picture.
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post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-14-2007, 08:28 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
You do everyone involved too much credit, including the thread's author. It's disingenuous to posit that the Democrats were a bunch of hungy babies waiting to be spoon fed whatever the Rove kitchen was dishing out. There was plenty of skepticism, as alluded to in the article above, and what sealed the deal - concrete evidence? A smoking gun? No, the threat of being railroaded come election time by the Rove Republican political machine. The fear of being vulnerable to replacement because they did their jobs and acted as a check & balance of the executive.

Democrats were guilty of it. Republicans were guilty of it. There aren't any more crosses upon which to nail Republicans though. I've already made peace with the betrayal of those in the Republican party who have turned it into the modern, fascist face of liberalism - they're dead to me. What I find remarkable is that 1) people like FTL keep on whipping the dead horses they found, for faults that 2) the horses they chose continue repeating.

You also imply that Rove's modus operandi was in lies & deceit, in the name of short-term political gain. This is contradictory; were this true, upon discovery of the first 'lie' Rove told, his credibility would be shot. Explain how a liar and deceiver bent on short-term political gains manipulates bodies of legislators for decades across the state of Texas and the nation's capitol. Codswallop.

I'm not crowing about anything...I'm no great fan of Karl Rove, but I definitely appreciate the way he made marionettes of political foes and allies for quite some time. Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely. I'm for term limits.

Anyone else want to step into the box and take a swing at deflecting ALL of the blame for the disastrous performance of Democrats in the past decade onto the narrow shoulders of a doughy middle-aged balding dork from Texas?
Rove has been a crook for years:

Don't expect the truth from Karl Rove - Los Angeles Times

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-14-2007, 08:32 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith
The overwhelming theme here is that nearly all our politicians betrayed us, and all for their personal and party politicing, which they nearly all placed above performing the duties they swore to perform when they took office. Shame on them, and shame on us, the electorate, for letting our standards fall so low. And to think it all came about because the general population was placated with cheap junk made courtesy of exploited labor, a persistent raping of the environment and a complete lack of government regulation. Placated into believing everything was alright because the poorest of us has someone worse off struggling to make junk for us that we don't need, just to eek out a living. We are consuming nearly anything, cheap, that the world can provide, cheap. Whether we need it or not. It makes us think, since we can buy the junk, which can't be fixed when it breaks in a few months, all must ok. We are all powerful. We have the strongest economy - after all, it is those offshore slaves working for us, so we must be on top. While we are truly being betrayed by our politicians and business leaders, all for a quick buck to buy more cheap shit they don't need either. Sad. Even sadder that, with the pattern of deception and deceit for the past six years, when the Democrats gained power they did nothing. Truly pitiful. Jim
Say what you want, but in the end the only hope for anything different is the Democratic Party. The two-party system in this country is rigged at every level. It is drilled into the very core of everything, simply because this is not a real proportional democracy. Third party efforts have failed continually since 1861. Until there are structural changes in the COTUS, it will continue to be so, and under those conditions, I will take the Democrats, warts and all, over the scheming murderers who run the Republican Party. The real problem is we do not really live in a free country, even tho we delude ourselves into thinking we do. America is essentially a rigged game. In the little choice that we have, I will exercise it to vote for the party that is most likely to ultimately radically change the game. It will not happen until a two-thirds majority is achieved. It has happened before, and when it does, the country truly advances, as it did in 1865 and in 1964. It may damn well take another 100 years before we are freed from our new slavery - slavery to the corporate state. While both parties slop at the corporate trough, it is the Republicans who are outright owned by them. The Democrats simply do not have the votes to change much of anything at this point. Abandoning them simply plays into the corportist's hand.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

Last edited by FeelTheLove; 08-14-2007 at 08:39 PM.
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post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 08-14-2007, 08:43 PM
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At what point does the lack of real choice translate into rendering our so-called democratic republic a complete sham? One could argue that Japan has been a democratic republic since shortly after the end of WWII, but that argument starts and stops with the right to vote, since they really had/have a one-party system, although a second party recently grabbed the reins of power, if only momentarily. It seems that while Japan is struggling to achieve choice toward the end of establishing a true democratic republic, we are moving hastily in the opposite direction.

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