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post #51 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-27-2007, 10:17 AM
M44
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prof now that is Bullshit. The first 4 I agree with you on, but when we get to number 5....that is where you become stupid. Q'uran 5:51 states: "Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another."

Number 6 is also bullshit by you. Verse 9:123 says:"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you."

Verse 47:3 "When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly."

Verse 48:29 "Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another."

Verse 66:9 "Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate."

Verse 4:101 "The unbelievers are your inveterate foe."

Number 7 is also BS. Quran 4:34 states: "As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them , refuse to share their beds, beat them."

Number 8. How in the hell is the constitution not based on biblical principles? Although I couldn't find any exact quotes in the constitution(I didnt reserch too hard either) many of the signers were undoubtedly Christian

George Mason, who suggested the first 10 amendments: "The laws of nature are the laws of God, whose authority can be superseded by no power on earth,"

James McHenry: Neither let it be overlooked, that public utility pleads most forcibly for the general distribution of the Holy Scriptures.

The doctrine they preach, the obligations they impose, the punishment they threaten, the rewards they promise, the stamp and image of divinity they bear, which produces a conviction of their truths, can alone secure to society, order and peace, and to our courts of justice and constitutions of government, purity, stability, and usefulness.

Charles Pickney: "Blasphemy against the Almighty is denying his being or providence, or uttering contumelious reproaches on our Saviour Christ. It is punished, at common law by fine and imprisonment, for Christianity is part of the laws of the land."

And Patrick Henry: It cannot be emphasized too strongly that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded assylum, prosperity and freedom of worship here.

Allah is not the God of Christians and Jews. Allah is the Arabian moon god, and God, Jehovah, Yahweh, Father, whatever you call him is THE God, there is no other God.

And you're damn right we're at war with Islam, even though the majority of Americans dont know it. Islam is a religion of violence, war, and hatred. A good example of the religion of peace is embodied in the Danish cartoons of several years ago. They are fucking cartoons, pencil drawings. Islam is the only religous cult I can think of that is so outwardly violent over such a small matter. Christians do not burn Danish flags and attack people because someone made fun of Jesus.

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post #52 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-27-2007, 11:22 AM
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prof now that is Bullshit. The first 4 I agree with you on, but when we get to number 5....that is where you become stupid. Q'uran 5:51 states: "Believers, take neither the Jews nor the Christians for your friends. They are friends with one another."

Number 6 is also bullshit by you. Verse 9:123 says:"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you."

Verse 47:3 "When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly."

Verse 48:29 "Muhammad is Allah's apostle. Those who follow him are ruthless to the unbelievers but merciful to one another."

Verse 66:9 "Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate."

Verse 4:101 "The unbelievers are your inveterate foe."

Number 7 is also BS. Quran 4:34 states: "As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them , refuse to share their beds, beat them."

Number 8. How in the hell is the constitution not based on biblical principles? Although I couldn't find any exact quotes in the constitution(I didnt reserch too hard either) many of the signers were undoubtedly Christian

George Mason, who suggested the first 10 amendments: "The laws of nature are the laws of God, whose authority can be superseded by no power on earth,"

James McHenry: Neither let it be overlooked, that public utility pleads most forcibly for the general distribution of the Holy Scriptures.

The doctrine they preach, the obligations they impose, the punishment they threaten, the rewards they promise, the stamp and image of divinity they bear, which produces a conviction of their truths, can alone secure to society, order and peace, and to our courts of justice and constitutions of government, purity, stability, and usefulness.

Charles Pickney: "Blasphemy against the Almighty is denying his being or providence, or uttering contumelious reproaches on our Saviour Christ. It is punished, at common law by fine and imprisonment, for Christianity is part of the laws of the land."

And Patrick Henry: It cannot be emphasized too strongly that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded assylum, prosperity and freedom of worship here.

Allah is not the God of Christians and Jews. Allah is the Arabian moon god, and God, Jehovah, Yahweh, Father, whatever you call him is THE God, there is no other God.

And you're damn right we're at war with Islam, even though the majority of Americans dont know it. Islam is a religion of violence, war, and hatred. A good example of the religion of peace is embodied in the Danish cartoons of several years ago. They are fucking cartoons, pencil drawings. Islam is the only religous cult I can think of that is so outwardly violent over such a small matter. Christians do not burn Danish flags and attack people because someone made fun of Jesus.
Wait just a minute, are you telling me that Muslims can't be our friends because their religion "told them so"? I think you quoted Koranic guidlines of when in time of war not conduct during peace; maybe someone familiar withthe Koran should step in in here!

So does that make anyone I know to be a Muslim an enemy because they think of me as such? Should I watch my back and have my handy kirpan nearby?

No doubt I agree with you about what Islam preaches which is 100% fear but aren't Muslims people? If we declare war on Islam, aren't we declaring war on Muslims? If it is war, what's our objective? Conversion? Extermination?

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post #53 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-27-2007, 11:54 AM
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p
Allah is not the God of Christians and Jews. Allah is the Arabian moon god, and God, Jehovah, Yahweh, Father, whatever you call him is THE God, there is no other God.
Check your source on this one. All three of the great monotheistic religions are all rooted in the same God. The main difference between Judaisim, Christianity and Islam is which prophet is considered to be the last word on God's will. Which is why Christians and Muslims both incorporate beliefs from the Old Testament in their belief structure. It is also why Islam does consider Jesus to be a prophet, just not *the* prophet. But God is the same God, whether the name he is given happens to be Yahweh, Jehovah, God or Allah.
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post #54 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-27-2007, 11:56 AM
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Wait just a minute, are you telling me that Muslims can't be our friends because their religion "told them so"? I think you quoted Koranic guidlines of when in time of war not conduct during peace; maybe someone familiar withthe Koran should step in in here!

So does that make anyone I know to be a Muslim an enemy because they think of me as such? Should I watch my back and have my handy kirpan nearby?

No doubt I agree with you about what Islam preaches which is 100% fear but aren't Muslims people? If we declare war on Islam, aren't we declaring war on Muslims? If it is war, what's our objective? Conversion? Extermination?

No, not conversion by force, then we would be just as the Moslem hordes that spread across North and East Africa. Not extermination either, then we would be as bad the Nazis. It is going to take a good long time to win this war. One way to begin is to stop using Mid-East oil. We need to find an alternative oil source, or perhaps even a new energy. Ethanol doesn't cut it. We are literally funding the terrorists and the clerics mullahs by buying gas. If we hadn't started buying oil form them we would have an even bigger problem on out hands. I will agree that the average Muslim is not set out to kill us, especially those in the US who are gazillionares compared to the people back in whatever country they came from. Terrorists were created bt poverty. These young men's families are dirt poor(usually. Osama bin laden is an excpetion) and have nothing to lose. They are spurred on by their spiritual leaders at the mosque and become staunchly anti-western. In my eyes, it seems to be more of a jealousy issue than out-right hate. They are jealous of what western civilization has. Peace, wealth, knowledge and really, freedom just to name a few. The clerics take advantage of this jealousy and tell them to go take flight lessons in the US.

If we weren't buying oil form the Arabs our position would be mush worse. The Muslims who do have money wouldn't have it and there'd be many, many more jihadists out there.

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post #55 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-27-2007, 11:57 AM
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This clearly shows your ignorance towards this subject. Right now I cannot comment as I am a physician and do not have time to reply in detail but check back as I will be answering the above in detail.
Thanks
Hey, Dr. Dinglefuck, maybe you can explain how "ignorant" the author of this article, themselves a Muslim, really is. A very progressive, peace-loving, modern religion you're prostletyzing, felchbag.

The Muslim Weekly
The Burqini Bedazzlers
And it’s an itsy bitsy teeny weeny yellow poka-dot Burqini
By Safa Suling Tan

The new wave in the Islamic fashion circle is the suit that allows Muslim women to enjoy a dip in the pool or sea which most had to forego because of the indecent swimming suits available on the market.

Now, Muslim women are "free" to pursue their water sports interests and hidden oceanic desires. The ocean is the limit!

The suit is said to cover enough to preserve a Muslim’s modesty, whilst being light enough to enable swimming.

It was described as the perfect solution for Muslim women who want to swim but are uncomfortable about "revealing" bathing suits.

The name "burqini" is a portmanteau of burqa and bikini.

It looks rather like a full-length wetsuit with built-on hood, but somewhat looser and made of swimsuit material instead of rubber.

However, there has been a strong criticism of burqini by the muslim ulema (scholars) who feel that there is nothing islamic about a burqini.

And rightly so.

It is laughable that the burqini has been touted as a liberation for the Muslim woman who is now free from the constraints imposed on her by her desire to preserve her modesty and abide by the tenets of her faith.

The burqini was designed by Lebanese Australian Aheda Zanetti. In her own words: "My name is Aheda Zanetti, the woman behind the Ahiida label, migrated to Australia from Lebanon at age of 2. Now 38, married with 4 children. I remember growing up in Australia posted a lot of challenges for a young Muslim / Arab girl. As an active person who liked to participate in community activities and sport, I found myself restricted due to cultural and religious beliefs. As years went by, I noticed there are younger girls and women that are embracing Islam and obeying their Islamic belief in dressing modestly, in turn, having to miss out on opportunities, and taking part in any sporting activities that Australia has to offer. By facing this on a daily basis and seeing girls struggle with what is around presently, we at Ahiida have found a need to make specialised sportswear to suit the Muslim female."

But Zanetti, did you forget we are Muslims and are not like most people. What is the point of our sisters trying to prove themselves as equally enjoyng life according to the non believers’ standards?

Allah has said that this world is a paradise for the unbelievers and that they will mock at us, for our beliefs and contraints. But this world is but temporary, its enjoyments and pleasures a chimera, a fantasy that entices and eludes, and will eventually disappear. What we Muslims aim for is the reality of the hearafter, the eternal life and the neverending bliss which our Creator has promised all believers who strive and hold fast to the straight path. So what are a few so called missed opportunities like being unable to take part in sports and indulge in one’s desires? Would it not be worse to miss the opportunity to get into Jannah (heaven)? Should we not put this world in its right perspective as Allah has so kindly warned us to?

Some of the comments one hears about how great the burqini is makes one shudder at the apparent ignorance of some Muslim women who actually think that a burqini is decent and that one’s hijab is not broken by donning this new fangled creation, that appallingly, was created by a Muslim woman.

One enthuses: "I'd wear one, happily! As an observant American Muslim woman, I have no desire to show my body to a beach full of strangers.. But I do want to be able to enjoy the same sports I did before I was Muslim - to surf, swim, etc. I have nothing but applause for the creative designers who are making comfortable, stylish, sporty - AND modest outfits."

Well sister, I can assure you that donning the burqini will attract stares from a beach full of strangers! And that in itself would defeat the whole purpose of the hijab would it not? You cannot have your cake and eat it to.

The burqini contradicts the hijab on so many fronts. Of course the burqini shows one’s body. Being half naked is not the only way to show off one’s body. One’s figure can just as surely and effectively be displayed by being clad in a full length slinky outfit that delicately hugs every womanly curve. Ask any man, and 7 out of 10 would tell you that the later is actually more sexy as it leaves more to the imagination.

For the benefit of all Muslims, let us examine what the hijab is. The hijab is not just the headscarf. It goes beyond that to other physical aspects as well as behavioural aspects. But for the point of discussion here, we will just focus on the physical aspects of hijab.

The hijab a woman wears has to:

1. cover everything but hands and face (that being the basic minimum for those women who do not/have not started to wear the niqab)

2. be loose

3. be opaque (translucent does not cut it)

4. wear no bells and things which make sounds (eg. high heels that strike the pavement when one walks, skirts with bells, etc, as sounds attract others' attention)

5. wear no perfume (as smells attract others' attention)

6. wear no bright and shiny attire from head to toe, for obvious reasons

7. wear no facial make-up (as cosmetics accentuate our face, making it look attractive)


Reading rave after rave of excited comments posted on the web was nowhere near funny.

Luckily, there was one who hit the nail on the head, and I think this came from a non-Muslim lady, who said:
"So, okay, it's not showing any skin, but is that really the most important element of religious modesty? Certainly the "burqini" is extremely "body-conscious," to use a fashion phrase. It might as well be spandex tights and a miniskirt--but I don't expect too many Muslim women walking down the street in that.

Don’t get me wrong, I‘m all for a garment that allows Muslim and other modest women greater freedom to swim and play. What I'm irked by is the seeming hypocritical standard. A burqa allows no hint of the woman's shape. The burqini hugs every curve. If it is okay to reveal one's body under spandex (or whatever the suit is made of) on the beach, why isn't it okay to do so otherwise?"
And we all know the answer to that question. It is because we have been commanded by Allah to dress modestly so that we will be seen as modest women when we are out and not be molested. The conditions of the hijab are clear and straightforward. The Qur’an and the sunnah both, give no leeway for negligence based on ignorance.

How can one honestly say that the burqini does not break the hijab when the shape of one’s shoulders, arms, legs, neck is clear for all to make out? Not to mention that there is no extra covering over the chest area to hide the shape of the breast, and the feet is exposed for all to see!

Proponents of the burqini will defend it and say that it is loose enough. If it was then there would be no need for a burqa on dry land now would it? We should see the burqini for what it really is. The burqini is not liberation within the confines of Islamic modesty and in accordance with Allah’s commands. The burqini is not Islamic, and it is a compromise. One should be aware that donning the burqini would be compromising one’s faith and displeasing Allah.

If the burqini was within the confines of Islam, then why are there sisters not jumping on the bandwagon and donning it on and jumping into the nearest sea they can find? In all honesty, the only place that I feel the burqini is acceptable is when one wears it to a women’s only swimming pool.

I am sure most of us Muslim women would love to catch a break on the wave, go jet skiing and wake boarding, or just good old free styling, but I am more sure that most of us have given up those pleasures to seek the greatest one – that of pleasing Allah.
You're an idiotic asshole who's treed themselves with this idiotic line of argumentation. Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

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post #56 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-27-2007, 12:06 PM
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No, not conversion by force, then we would be just as the Moslem hordes that spread across North and East Africa. Not extermination either, then we would be as bad the Nazis. It is going to take a good long time to win this war. One way to begin is to stop using Mid-East oil. We need to find an alternative oil source, or perhaps even a new energy. Ethanol doesn't cut it. We are literally funding the terrorists and the clerics mullahs by buying gas. If we hadn't started buying oil form them we would have an even bigger problem on out hands. I will agree that the average Muslim is not set out to kill us, especially those in the US who are gazillionares compared to the people back in whatever country they came from. Terrorists were created bt poverty. These young men's families are dirt poor(usually. Osama bin laden is an excpetion) and have nothing to lose. They are spurred on by their spiritual leaders at the mosque and become staunchly anti-western. In my eyes, it seems to be more of a jealousy issue than out-right hate. They are jealous of what western civilization has. Peace, wealth, knowledge and really, freedom just to name a few. The clerics take advantage of this jealousy and tell them to go take flight lessons in the US.

If we weren't buying oil form the Arabs our position would be mush worse. The Muslims who do have money wouldn't have it and there'd be many, many more jihadists out there.
You said "one way to begin"... Begin what? I lost you after that!

I had a hard time understanding everything you said but what I highlighted has got to be a joke, right? Have you forgoten that we are occupying their land as we have done in the past and that the Palestinian issue is center stage to all of their "hatred"?
So if it is not extermination or conversion that we are seeking then why in the hell are we at war with them again? Oil? Do you think that we should have either more control over their (OUR ) oil or simply find another source, right?
Please clarify what you're saying so I can accept your ideas and maybe get myself a brown shirt and route out some Muslims from my neighborhood if there are any


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post #57 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-27-2007, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jlomon
Check your source on this one. All three of the great monotheistic religions are all rooted in the same God. The main difference between Judaisim, Christianity and Islam is which prophet is considered to be the last word on God's will. Which is why Christians and Muslims both incorporate beliefs from the Old Testament in their belief structure. It is also why Islam does consider Jesus to be a prophet, just not *the* prophet. But God is the same God, whether the name he is given happens to be Yahweh, Jehovah, God or Allah.
I told him that but in his "we are at war with Islam" mindset he told me that I was wrong

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post #58 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-27-2007, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by drewprof
I told him that but in his "we are at war with Islam" mindset he told me that I was wrong
Don't get me wrong, I do believe we're at war with militant Islam, mainly of the Wahabbist (sp?) sect. I just don't think we're at war with all Muslims.
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post #59 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-27-2007, 12:38 PM
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Don't get me wrong, I do believe we're at war with militant Islam, mainly of the Wahabbist (sp?) sect. I just don't think we're at war with all Muslims.
I am not "getting you wrong"; I know what you mean and that's not what M44 said and I doubt he knows the difference

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post #60 of 110 (permalink) Old 07-27-2007, 12:39 PM
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I am not "getting you wrong"; I know what you mean and that's not what M44 said and I doubt he knows the difference
Agreed
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