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post #51 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-19-2007, 12:54 PM
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It's funny how some people convieniently forget that the previous administration stated the same things as Bush & Co. has/have. Of course that really doesn't matter much since they weren't Republicans.
The Brits and even the French seem to be standing by those same lies, strange how that is, isn't it.................. I guess the whole world must be wrong, and the Marxists here in the States are right as usual.......
Of course, when Clinton and the Brits and French said there were questions as to whether there were still WMD's in Iraq, they went to the UN, got resolutions to INSPECT. Inspector's went in and determined after TWO YEARS of inspections that there were no WMD's still in Iraq. This has been confirmed by 54 months of searching by the US Military which has also found NO WMDs.

Find a new drum to bang.

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post #52 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-19-2007, 12:59 PM
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Dredge up all you like, that doesn't make it so.
As for mainstream thinking, YOUR Democrat controlled Congress still has less support then the President has. What's your answer to that Karl?
Pols show that Americans don't like the complete lack of cooperation in Congress. That Americans don't like the stalemate of Congress. Note that those conditions require both the Majority and Minority to exist.

The Minority's filibuster to keep a vote from occurring really shows the world just how much the Minority disrespects Democracy.

The Ditch Mitch bumper stickers are already out.

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post #53 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-19-2007, 01:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
Pols show that Americans don't like the complete lack of cooperation in Congress. That Americans don't like the stalemate of Congress. Note that those conditions require both the Majority and Minority to exist.

The Minority's filibuster to keep a vote from occurring really shows the world just how much the Minority disrespects Democracy.

The Ditch Mitch bumper stickers are already out.
As I'm sure you know, just the opposite is true. The Hang Harry and Neuter Nancy bumper stickers are already out here.

Don't believe everything you think
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post #54 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-19-2007, 01:09 PM
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I know you are desperate to "believe" that President Bush is the root of all evil and that he caused terrorism worldwide, but even an idiot like you has to know that this war is not of his making. The difference is that when the terrorists attacked us on 9/11 President Bush said we are going to return the favor by taking it to them--which he has done, in spades. I think they terribly underestimated what our response would be. Bush took it to a whole new level and that has produced shock and awe throughout the Muslim world--providing terrorists worldwide and liberals in the US w/ ammunition to personally attack the President of the United States. Everyone here and in the Muslim world (all over the world) was expecting a Clintonesque response--two missiles up a camel's ass.

Well that isn't what happened, is it? And as a result is the terrorists--abroad and in this country--have jumped on the Bash Bush bandwagon--the terrorists abroad to inflict their brand of culture and religion on the world and the terrorist (sympathizers) here for purely partisan political reasons to destroy the President and win the WH and Congress in '08. Are you w/ me so far?

As a result, the cockroaches are coming out of the "woodwork" here and abroad. At least the terrorists abroad have evil but "honest" reasons for their actions. The same cannot be said for the political partisans in this country. Their motives are equally evil, but politically motivated. Politics has twisted the fact that our enemies started this war long before 9/11. Terrorists bombed the World Trade Center in 1993. They hit the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia in 1996, U.S. Embassies in East Africa in 1998 and the USS Cole in 2000. All the while, Osama bin Laden was advocating war against the US and building a terror network from camps in Afghanistan.

The most astonishing argument is the claim the US or the Bush administration is responsible for this terror wave. Terrorists are responsible for terror, period!

How's that for a "non-answer?"
I'm sure now quite sure your answer is heartfelt, but unfortunately it is as unconvincing as the words from the mouth of Tony Snow, the "Decider" himself or the surly silence of Dick Cheney.

Even acccepting your premise the WOT is not of George W. Bush's making, his responses have been ill considered and even worse in their implementation.
HE CHOSE THE WRONG VENUE (Iraq) and based the choice on a lie.

As was pointed out, the Taliban and its venue in Afghanistan were the proper targets post 9/11, for the full might and fury of the US military, but Iraq was not.
Rather than admitting that error, GWB has instead pursued an un co-ordinated, unnecessary and bungled campaign in Iraq, created a government that was turned out to be a Shiia religious based entity, and gave birth to a uniquely Iraqi mutation of Al Qaeda where none was seen before.

He has tried to put out the fire in Iraq by pouring gasoline on it. Using the US army against the terrorists criminals and thugs in Iraq won't work. The only way to stop that mess would to be what the Iraqis expect: "sahel"

"Sahel" is a uniquely Iraqi concept which means "to utterly defeat and humiliate someone by dragging his corpse through the streets". For centuries, when a new faction in Iraq gained power, it would killl the leadership of the previous rulers and display their mutilated bodies as a demonstration of their dominance. In 1958, the body of a former prime minister, Nuri Al-Said, was hacked apart and the bits publicly displayed. Later, Saddam displayed the same brutality.

But when Saddam's regime was toppled, the US made a crucial mistake in "not establishing TOTAL CONTROL, as Iraqi history says a conqueror must". They even let the defeated army wander away with its weapons. This. of course, opened the door for the Shiia and Sunnis to try and fight it out and emerge the dominant power.

"Shock and awe" in Iraq might well make for a wonderfully catchy political slogan but it has proven to be a dreadful and totally unsuccessful foreign policy choice there.

Your flinging about the casual insult of calling those disagreeing with Pres. Bush "terrorists at home" is an outrage for which you should be ashamed.
You are very quick to label those who disagree with you and President Bush "terrorist sympathizers" when in fact they are patriots who believe in the basic goodness and decency of the United States.

Jim
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"I swear to god, it's like I live in a trailer of common sense, and stare out the window at a tornado of stupidity." >'='<
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post #55 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-19-2007, 01:14 PM
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The Dems have a majority on both sides, and they still can't do anything except line their pockets. (There is a bill to raise their salaries in the House now.)
What have they done that is as "Progressive" as their "new" name?
The voters will decide the fait of the Republicans when they vote in November, but it’s really funny how even if the Republicans don’t have control, it’s still their fault that things go wrong……….. Maybe the Democraps should get better leadership, of perhaps learn from the Republicans about how to force things through Congress controlled by the minority power?
That COLA payraise is automatic unless killed with a bunch of other pay increases for other federal employees [a poison pill built into the law when it was enacted four years ago]. It made it very hard for Congress to vote down their COLA because it also voted down the COLA for every other Federal employee.

As for "what have they done?" This has been asked before.
Checks and Balances have been reinstituted into the Federal Process.
The Administrative/Congressional Rubber Stamp has been retired
Minimum wage increased for those who have not enjoyed this booming economy
Child Care package for indigent familes to get health care for kids is moving through congress [though threatened with a veto since it has a TAX on ciggies]

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post #56 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-19-2007, 01:20 PM
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As I'm sure you know, just the opposite is true. The Hang Harry and Neuter Nancy bumper stickers are already out here.
Not sure it would be considered "opposite". Here in Kentucky, where Mitch is running for re-election next year, the Ditch Mitch bumper stickers ARE already out. If he will get his nose out of Bush's ass long enough, he might see one.

Isn't it great how Mitch's Filibuster got to show the world just how little the MINORITY respects Democracy. Frankly I hope he keeps it up. The longer that kind of silliness goes on, the better.

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post #57 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-19-2007, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce R.
I guess the lesson there would be that even if you win, the media can and will make it look like you lost..............
This is the same old tired right wing Republican mantra used in the Vietnam war, which even after the Tet Offensive in 1968, which Walter Cronkite opined could not be won. When all else fails, blame the media for turning victory into defeat?

It was NOT that simple. The Tet battle was in the end a defeat for North Vietnam, but not the end of the war. Overrunning the US embassy was a huge psychological victory, as it showed the USA was sacrosanct nowhere.

The communist regime had inherited the mantle of legitimacy and Nationism, and its fanaticism was unstoppable, and the USA only fought a war of gradual escalation, mostly defensive (No invasion of the North) and for ill defined goals such as the domino theory.

Were the United States to withdraw from Iraq, it would be entirely unsurprising if the same right wing Republican elements were to ONCE AGAIN decry the war in Iraq was lost by the media!!

Jim
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post #58 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-19-2007, 01:28 PM
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^They are already doing that.
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post #59 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-19-2007, 01:29 PM
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Both you and that stupid argument are BoguS!!! Read my reply to Mr. Hatred above...
Getting awfully close to personal insults there Mr Jayhawk. Many think that is among other things, signs of a bankrupt argument.

Chill out...

Jim
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post #60 of 108 (permalink) Old 07-19-2007, 01:34 PM
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I'm sure now quite sure your answer is heartfelt, but unfortunately it is as unconvincing as the words from the mouth of Tony Snow, the "Decider" himself or the surly silence of Dick Cheney.

Even acccepting your premise the WOT is not of George W. Bush's making, his responses have been ill considered and even worse in their implementation.
HE CHOSE THE WRONG VENUE (Iraq) and based the choice on a lie.

As was pointed out, the Taliban and its venue in Afghanistan were the proper targets post 9/11, for the full might and fury of the US military, but Iraq was not.
Rather than admitting that error, GWB has instead pursued an un co-ordinated, unnecessary and bungled campaign in Iraq, created a government that was turned out to be a Shiia religious based entity, and gave birth to a uniquely Iraqi mutation of Al Qaeda where none was seen before.

He has tried to put out the fire in Iraq by pouring gasoline on it. Using the US army against the terrorists criminals and thugs in Iraq won't work. The only way to stop that mess would to be what the Iraqis expect: "sahel"

"Sahel" is a uniquely Iraqi concept which means "to utterly defeat and humiliate someone by dragging his corpse through the streets". For centuries, when a new faction in Iraq gained power, it would killl the leadership of the previous rulers and display their mutilated bodies as a demonstration of their dominance. In 1958, the body of a former prime minister, Nuri Al-Said, was hacked apart and the bits publicly displayed. Later, Saddam displayed the same brutality.

But when Saddam's regime was toppled, the US made a crucial mistake in "not establishing TOTAL CONTROL, as Iraqi history says a conqueror must". They even let the defeated army wander away with its weapons. This. of course, opened the door for the Shiia and Sunnis to try and fight it out and emerge the dominant power.

"Shock and awe" in Iraq might well make for a wonderfully catchy political slogan but it has proven to be a dreadful and totally unsuccessful foreign policy choice there.

Your flinging about the casual insult of calling those disagreeing with Pres. Bush "terrorists at home" is an outrage for which you should be ashamed.
You are very quick to label those who disagree with you and President Bush "terrorist sympathizers" when in fact they are patriots who believe in the basic goodness and decency of the United States.
I have never said, nor do I believe, that no mistakes were made. Only a fool could imagine an undertaking such a huge and complex proportions being conducted w/out some mistakes. But to accuse our President and/or our military and/or our country (all of which has been done here) is not only wrong, but not many years ago would have been considered treasonous. It has nothing to do w/ anyone "disagreeing w/ President Bush, it has to do what most real patriots consider treason against the USA!

Don't believe everything you think
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