Iraqi Interim Report: Hey 44% is passing, isn't it? - Page 6 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #51 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by drewprof
Wheree in the hell have you been, let's see do you even remember General Zinni?
Once again I ask, exactly when was he the commanding general on the ground in Iraq? And exactly who fired him and for what reason?

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post #52 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 09:28 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
The troops who died in Viet Nam (50,000+) did die in vain due to the lack of political courage in DC. You are arguing for exactly the same thing by demanding we surrender in Iraq and I will fight you and that BS notion w/ my last breath! We are there for a "good and noble reason" and all of your PC, cowardly rhetoric will not change that.
No, they just DIED. Simple as that. We went over, did as ordered and some lived and some died. They did not die in vain, that is so rudely disrespectful and and far from reality.

No one is demanding surrender because surrender is not a reality. We are not fighting a nation to which we could surrender. Iraq is not our enemy so there is no surrender to Iraq.

You have said that the War on Terror is going to be decades so if we leave Iraq, we have not surrendered to the War on Terror, as there is no standing Army to which we surrender, we only move to a different battlefield, with a different [hopefully better] battle plan.

You make the basic assumption that because we are in Iraq that it is the correct thing to do. You hear the “fight them there so we don’t have to fight them here” and are naive enough to believe that makes sense yet when you read CIA reports from this week that say that AQ is as strong as it ever has been and most likely over here you do not connect the dots that the “fight them there…” mantra is just an empty slogan.

No one wants to surrender. That is a NeoCon RED HERRING to try and deflect. Nice try but it doesn’t work. What opponents say is this is a tactical error and a strategic refocusing of troops is a smarter way to fight a War on Terror. This war is going to require more Brains than Brawn. So far we have left out half the equation and the lack of success for this “no brainer” has shown.

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post #53 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 09:37 PM Thread Starter
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I have never heard of one of them, and would like to know exactly when they were in command on the ground in Iraq. Care to fill us in, general bear?
You really need to read a bit more

Zinni US Marine CnC US Central Command
Batiste US Army Commander 1 Inf Div
Newbold US Marine Pentagon Ops Commander
Shinseki US Army Chief of Staff

All had boots on ground at one time or another and all fired by Rumsfeld for questioning the pisspoor planning of Wolfy and Rummy

There are 13 others.

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post #54 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 09:47 PM
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post #55 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jayhawk
Exactly which generals were "fired for talking too much?" And exactly how the hell do you know anything about the inner-workings of the Pentagon or any other government establishment?
Jaybaugh, here is what I wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith
I have no doubt the real Generals who have been the leaders of our ground forces for the last several decades know what they are talking about. Unfortunately, they were fired because they didn't agree with the Bush, Cheney, Rummy and Rice Agenda. The rest have learned to shut the fuck up when they don't agree with the misguided. So, we are left with men in the Army leading our forces who are muzzled by their civilian bosses. When did you hear any of the present crew suggest there is a military mission to be won in Iraq? At least they don't say anything when they don't agree.

At least be accurate when you attribute your theories to retired or active actual Generals in our military. I don't even think you can find a quote by the new Secretary of Defense that would support your outlook. Because you don't listen to anyone on the ground, Generals or otherwise. You get your brainwaves on this subject from Fox News and Tony Snowjob. Jim



No one was "fired for talking too much" they were publicly humiliated and subsequently marginalized or fired for disagreeing with the Bush, Cheney, Rummy and Rice Agenda - which was to go into Iraq on fabricated intelligence and lying to Congress, with too few troops to do the job correctly, especially after Saddam was ousted. Do a little research bud. When a guy like Shinseki is ignominiously set aside other career military men got the message. Or a guy like Taguba is ordered to retire.

I never invoked any special connections in the Pentagon, so don't suggest I did. My dealings there are not for an internet website. Anything I said here can be fact checked, even using your only sources, Faux News and talk radio. But, loose lips, why don't you tell us which of the commanders in the field is telling you in private how nothing but complete victory in Iraq is a noble and achievable cause. Even the guy in charge today has made it clear there is no military mission to win, the role of the military is to support a political solution. Which is not happening.

Just like in Vietnam, there was no reason for us to be there, we brought misery for a decade to the area and then left, and no bad shit happened to America. The "Domino Theory" fell and nothing else did. The entire rationale for being in Vietnam evaporated. We didn't "lose" the war in Vietnam, because we never had anything to win by being there. We just woke up and realized it was a terrible mistake. And left, which ended the first order mistake, and let the Vietnamese people reunite and work toward a peaceful, and prosperous future. You guys like to suppose there was some noble American mission that was lost. It was a bullshit thing, the US confronting the USSR in someone else's country.

Jim
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post #56 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
No, they just DIED. Simple as that. We went over, did as ordered and some lived and some died. They did not die in vain, that is so rudely disrespectful and and far from reality.

No one is demanding surrender because surrender is not a reality. We are not fighting a nation to which we could surrender. Iraq is not our enemy so there is no surrender to Iraq.

You have said that the War on Terror is going to be decades so if we leave Iraq, we have not surrendered to the War on Terror, as there is no standing Army to which we surrender, we only move to a different battlefield, with a different [hopefully better] battle plan.

You make the basic assumption that because we are in Iraq that it is the correct thing to do. You hear the “fight them there so we don’t have to fight them here” and are naive enough to believe that makes sense yet when you read CIA reports from this week that say that AQ is as strong as it ever has been and most likely over here you do not connect the dots that the “fight them there…” mantra is just an empty slogan.

No one wants to surrender. That is a NeoCon RED HERRING to try and deflect. Nice try but it doesn’t work. What opponents say is this is a tactical error and a strategic refocusing of troops is a smarter way to fight a War on Terror. This war is going to require more Brains than Brawn. So far we have left out half the equation and the lack of success for this “no brainer” has shown.
Play your silly semantic games. It won't change the fact that dying is never "just that simple." This country sent our soldiers to Viet Nam and then for purely political reasons our government pulled the rug out from under them. There is nothing rude about that. It is just the facts, and in my mind those who died did so in vain--just exactly the way our troops in Iraq will have done when we cut and run like a bunch of cowards. I can assure you our troops would not want that but they will have no choice if and when the orders YOU want given come down. I don't know how you can stick your head in the sand and pretend that those are not the facts.

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post #57 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 10:44 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
You really need to read a bit more

Zinni US Marine CnC US Central Command
Batiste US Army Commander 1 Inf Div
Newbold US Marine Pentagon Ops Commander
Shinseki US Army Chief of Staff

All had boots on ground at one time or another and all fired by Rumsfeld for questioning the pisspoor planning of Wolfy and Rummy

There are 13 others.
You twist the truth nicely to fit your piss-poor view of things. I read enough to know that none of them was ever in command in Iraq and all of them thought they should be but were not. And none of them were fired for anything like what you pretend happened. Do the words "sour grapes" sound familiar?

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post #58 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 10:47 PM
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You are discussing relativity with someone who has never heard of Einstein...
You obviously think you are Einstein though from that silly screen name of yours...

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post #59 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
Jaybaugh, here is what I wrote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimSmith
I have no doubt the real Generals who have been the leaders of our ground forces for the last several decades know what they are talking about. Unfortunately, they were fired because they didn't agree with the Bush, Cheney, Rummy and Rice Agenda. The rest have learned to shut the fuck up when they don't agree with the misguided. So, we are left with men in the Army leading our forces who are muzzled by their civilian bosses. When did you hear any of the present crew suggest there is a military mission to be won in Iraq? At least they don't say anything when they don't agree.

At least be accurate when you attribute your theories to retired or active actual Generals in our military. I don't even think you can find a quote by the new Secretary of Defense that would support your outlook. Because you don't listen to anyone on the ground, Generals or otherwise. You get your brainwaves on this subject from Fox News and Tony Snowjob. Jim


No one was "fired for talking too much" they were publicly humiliated and subsequently marginalized or fired for disagreeing with the Bush, Cheney, Rummy and Rice Agenda - which was to go into Iraq on fabricated intelligence and lying to Congress, with too few troops to do the job correctly, especially after Saddam was ousted. Do a little research bud. When a guy like Shinseki is ignominiously set aside other career military men got the message. Or a guy like Taguba is ordered to retire.

I never invoked any special connections in the Pentagon, so don't suggest I did. My dealings there are not for an internet website. Anything I said here can be fact checked, even using your only sources, Faux News and talk radio. But, loose lips, why don't you tell us which of the commanders in the field is telling you in private how nothing but complete victory in Iraq is a noble and achievable cause. Even the guy in charge today has made it clear there is no military mission to win, the role of the military is to support a political solution. Which is not happening.

Just like in Vietnam, there was no reason for us to be there, we brought misery for a decade to the area and then left, and no bad shit happened to America. The "Domino Theory" fell and nothing else did. The entire rationale for being in Vietnam evaporated. We didn't "lose" the war in Vietnam, because we never had anything to win by being there. We just woke up and realized it was a terrible mistake. And left, which ended the first order mistake, and let the Vietnamese people reunite and work toward a peaceful, and prosperous future. You guys like to suppose there was some noble American mission that was lost. It was a bullshit thing, the US confronting the USSR in someone else's country.

Jim
You really love the sound of your own voice, don't you? Well no one else around here shares your enthusiasm for that fart cannon...

Don't believe everything you think
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post #60 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-16-2007, 07:05 AM
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You really love the sound of your own voice, don't you? Well no one else around here shares your enthusiasm for that fart cannon...
heh, heh.....speak for yourself, Gaybird! heh, heh......I DO! heh, heh.......
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