Iraqi Interim Report: Hey 44% is passing, isn't it? - Page 5 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #41 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
I have no doubt the real Generals who have been the leaders of our ground forces for the last several decades know what they are talking about. Unfortunately, they were fired because they didn't agree with the Bush, Cheney, Rummy and Rice Agenda. The rest have learned to shut the fuck up when they don't agree with the misguided. So, we are left with men in the Army leading our forces who are muzzled by their civilian bosses. When did you hear any of the present crew suggest there is a military mission to be won in Iraq? At least they don't say anything when they don't agree.

At least be accurate when you attribute your theories to retired or active actual Generals in our military. I don't even think you can find a quote by the new Secretary of Defense that would support your outlook. Because you don't listen to anyone on the ground, Generals or otherwise. You get your brainwaves on this subject from Fox News and Tony Snowjob. Jim
Exactly which generals were "fired for talking too much?" And exactly how the hell do you know anything about the inner-workings of the Pentagon or any other government establishment?

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post #42 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 07:44 PM Thread Starter
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So you would have the deaths of "all your friends" over there be in vain? They are there for good an noble reasons, and will stay there as long as it takes to be sure they didn't die in vain. Exactly how many years have you spent on the ground in Iraq, General Bear, that makes you so smart about what we should be doing or not doing--and where we should be doing it. You armchair generals really kill me--and you are really killing our soldiers in Iraq by your uninformed and reckless comments that only embolden our enemies.
You can't use "died in vain" any more than you can use it regarding the troops who died in Viet Nam in that lost political war.

They are not there for a "good and noble reason", they are there because W wanted to invade Iraq when he needed a bad guy in the war on terror and could not find OBL/AQ. He made up reasons, kept changing the reasons and people died. The troops died. Period.

I have not spent ANY time in Iraq. I have spent time at War College, at Air Force Academy and on the ground in Viet Nam so I have a bit more than armchair experience. And that is Major Bear [Ret.], not General. I had to actually work.

You seem to support a continuingly smaller number of backers of the war. Many of the former supporters [many having spent time on the ground] now do not because they know the plan was broken from Day1 and has been a failure since that point.

We are attempting to fight an ideology with an Army that is trained to fight tanks and soldiers.

We are attempting to fight a worldwide terrorist organization, which has no national or regional boundaries within the confines of a national border so “we can fight them there so we don’t have to fight them here”.

I went to Academy with many of the type of folks that are calling the shots today. I went to War College with many of our General Staff. They are extremely competent officers HOWEVER they are A+ Personalities and when in a fight will fight to the bitter end, whether it is the right thing to do or not [sometimes called red mist]. It is how they are built. It is why I was in Systems Analysis and NOT a battlefield commander. I look at all sides and determine what I believe is in the best interest in the LONG VIEW, not what my balls think is great at the moment.

And your experience is ZERO.

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post #43 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 07:56 PM Thread Starter
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Exactly which generals were "fired for talking too much?" And exactly how the hell do you know anything about the inner-workings of the Pentagon or any other government establishment?
Start with Shinseki, Batiste, Zinni and Newbold. The list is much longer but that is a good starting point.

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post #44 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 08:00 PM
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Yep, and general Taguba

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post #45 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
You can't use "died in vain" any more than you can use it regarding the troops who died in Viet Nam in that lost political war.

They are not there for a "good and noble reason", they are there because W wanted to invade Iraq when he needed a bad guy in the war on terror and could not find OBL/AQ. He made up reasons, kept changing the reasons and people died. The troops died. Period.

I have not spent ANY time in Iraq. I have spent time at War College, at Air Force Academy and on the ground in Viet Nam so I have a bit more than armchair experience. And that is Major Bear [Ret.], not General. I had to actually work.

You seem to support a continuingly smaller number of backers of the war. Many of the former supporters [many having spent time on the ground] now do not because they know the plan was broken from Day1 and has been a failure since that point.

We are attempting to fight an ideology with an Army that is trained to fight tanks and soldiers.

We are attempting to fight a worldwide terrorist organization, which has no national or regional boundaries within the confines of a national border so “we can fight them there so we don’t have to fight them here”.

I went to Academy with many of the type of folks that are calling the shots today. I went to War College with many of our General Staff. They are extremely competent officers HOWEVER they are A+ Personalities and when in a fight will fight to the bitter end, whether it is the right thing to do or not [sometimes called red mist]. It is how they are built. It is why I was in Systems Analysis and NOT a battlefield commander. I look at all sides and determine what I believe is in the best interest in the LONG VIEW, not what my balls think is great at the moment.

And your experience is ZERO.
The troops who died in Viet Nam (50,000+) did die in vain due to the lack of political courage in DC. You are arguing for exactly the same thing by demanding we surrender in Iraq and I will fight you and that BS notion w/ my last breath! We are there for a "good and noble reason" and all of your PC, cowardly rhetoric will not change that.

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post #46 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
The troops who died in Viet Nam (50,000+) did die in vain due to the lack of political courage in DC. You are arguing for exactly the same thing by demanding we surrender in Iraq and I will fight you and that BS notion w/ my last breath! We are there for a "good and noble reason" and all of your PC, cowardly rhetoric will not change that.
Please tell us what is this good and noble reason? Even the President seems to vacillate on that

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post #47 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 08:07 PM
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Start with Shinseki, Batiste, Zinni and Newbold. The list is much longer but that is a good starting point.
I have never heard of one of them, and would like to know exactly when they were in command on the ground in Iraq. Care to fill us in, general bear?

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post #48 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 08:08 PM
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I have never heard of one of them, and would like to know exactly when they were in command on the ground in Iraq. Care to fill us in, general bear?
Wheree in the hell have you been, let's see do you even remember General Zinni?

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post #49 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 08:11 PM
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Please tell us what is this good and noble reason? Even the President seems to vacillate on that
Once again "prof" do your own damn homework. I've posted long and often on the good and noble reasons for being in Iraq. And if there's one thing President Bush has never done it is vacillate on our reasons for being there. Only you kookberger terrorist supporters vacillate.

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post #50 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-15-2007, 08:12 PM
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Yep, and general Taguba
Exactly when was this Taguba guy the commanding general on the ground in Iraq? And exactly who fired him and for what reason?

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