Iraqi Interim Report: Hey 44% is passing, isn't it? - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-13-2007, 11:55 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Actually I read the document.

If you take the time to think about it, our own Congress spend more time setting-up commissions and committees than damn-near anything else. Those Iraqis learn fast!

B
That is actually part of my point. Setting up a commission should not be a "success". Results of the commission should be the "success" gate.

As for them not being used to democrazy, you are correct. Considering how their constitution is set up, with Islam as a vital component of it, I am not sure why democrazy is even a measuring stick. While I don't like the Baathists, I am not sure that I, or we, will like their version of Democrazy.

I was always taught to be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. I think we got it.

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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #12 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-13-2007, 12:09 PM
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Actually, if you READ the document all the way down, three of the successes consist of "setting up committees" or "setting up commissions". It does not say that they have really done anything, just that they were set up.

I can set up a commission for "peace and climate change to reduce national debt and trade deficits and improve ethics in our time" and call its institution a success. That only really means that I set up the web site and got the name tags and invitations spelled correctly for the upcoming meeting.
I loved the one where they said "setting up autonomous regions is a success". Of course it is, the militias are driving people out as each region is ethnically cleansed. They are promoting the disintegration of this society as a "success".

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #13 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-13-2007, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
If you take the time to think about it, you might come to the realization that democratic institutions are completely novel to them. Thus, any change in that direction, from blue-fingers to devising committees and commissions for different functions of government is a sea-change for people who were more accustomed to being murdered by the single-party rule of the Baathists. But then, you apparently like the Baathists so I understand why you are unimpressed.

B
Your saying a socialist government had a hard time setting up committees? Ha! And no, I don't "like" the Baathists, I just have enough common sense to realize that they were the best government for this particular society, something that I think has obviously been borne out by events.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #14 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-13-2007, 01:08 PM
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Good thing our own congress doesn't have to meet any measurements. How much have they gotten done in the last 180 days?

Raised the minimum wage and ummmmmmm?

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post #15 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-13-2007, 01:23 PM
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This is terrible news. I thought Iraq was 100% loss and now this. If it's not 100% loss how can we convince people to surrender? We need to get to work on it right away by denigrating any positives and accentuating any negatives. Let's turn it over to the propaganda department, they've done well so far.

B
You should have put that bear quote in quotes...

Don't believe everything you think
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post #16 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-13-2007, 01:31 PM
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I found the report very positive relative to what I was expecting based on all drive-by media reports leading up to its release and based on all the other leftwing assurances that we have already lost. There are a lot of good things going on in Iraq daily, which we never hear about. It's a sad comment on the current political state of affairs in this country.

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post #17 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-13-2007, 01:42 PM
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Don't worry, as soon as the Republicans get completely kicked out in 2008, they are going to get a lot more done, baby.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #18 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-13-2007, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
That is actually part of my point. Setting up a commission should not be a "success". Results of the commission should be the "success" gate.

As for them not being used to democrazy, you are correct. Considering how their constitution is set up, with Islam as a vital component of it, I am not sure why democrazy is even a measuring stick. While I don't like the Baathists, I am not sure that I, or we, will like their version of Democrazy.

I was always taught to be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. I think we got it.
We don't have to like what they do, they have to like what they do.

Our goal is to help them establish an effective government that protects the rights of minorities, equitably distributes power and the proceeds of the mineral wealth, and is not a threat to our strategic interests. That will most likely be a gov with a democratic framework.

I don't know why they shouldn't have an Islamic component to their governemnt -- that is who they are.

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thats what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #19 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-13-2007, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Your saying a socialist government had a hard time setting up committees? Ha! And no, I don't "like" the Baathists, I just have enough common sense to realize that they were the best government for this particular society, something that I think has obviously been borne out by events.
Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.

There's nothing like a monolithic murdering, thieving, raping bunch of thugs to run a repressive, despotic autocracy. And the trains ran on time!

Great model for the Democrat Party.

B

The biggest problems we are facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power into the executive branch and not go through Congress at all and thats what I intend to reverse.

~ Senator Barack H. Obama
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post #20 of 78 (permalink) Old 07-13-2007, 03:23 PM
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Looks to me like there is a lot of posters here that are happy to see them fail!
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