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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2007, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by gregs210
I've never heard of him before so I had no preconceived notions or bias before reading the post. I still think he has some valid points, I take it there is nothing in his column with which you would agree?
The paragraph

"But if Republicans are rushing to desert our troops and spit on the graves of heroes, the Democratic Party at least has been consistent - they've supported our enemies from the start, undercutting our troops and refusing to explain in detail what happens if we flee Iraq."

pretty much ends any consideration on my part of this guy.

He writes extensive on the subject. A little while back he was writing extensively that the war was lost. Since that didn't go over to well with his RWNJ audience, he has changed his tune back to that it could be won.

Myself, I reject the idea anyone is "surrendering" in Iraq. We are supposed to be at war with Al Queda. While the administration loves to call anyone who took a shot at us in Iraq is "al Queda", the truth is there are so many factions no one knows who is fighting who, and that perhaps the best way to defeat Al Queda in Iraq is to simply walk out and let the Shiites and Baathists wipe them out, which they have routinely done with Sunni fundamentalists in Iraq for the last one hundred years. The Shiites would recieve unlimited Iranian support in the endeavor, and the secular Sunnis should receive the same from us, even if it means putting the Baathist's back in power.

Iraq has never been fertile ground for the type of fundamentalism that breeds Al Queda, that has always been the forte of our so-called friends next door in Saudi Arabia - this is why pre-war Iraq was a socialist state, while Saudi Arabia has always been the home of Whabbism, Al Queda and lots of other dangerous nutiness. It is no coincidence that all of the 9-11 hijackers were Saudis, and none were Iraqis.

Anyone who knows their ass from their elbow on Middle East politics knows the best way to beat Al Queda in Iraq is to leave. As long as we are there, they will go stronger. It may be hard to grasp, but we will face defeat as long as we stay. We are the thing that keeps Iraq unstable by our very presence. If we were smart, we would allow Iraq to disintegrate into three states, and re-arm the Baathists in the Sunni section. The idea is not "surrender" it is something called "winning", something Bush has been unable to do in either Iraq or Afghanistan, has he not?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2007, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
The paragraph

"But if Republicans are rushing to desert our troops and spit on the graves of heroes, the Democratic Party at least has been consistent - they've supported our enemies from the start, undercutting our troops and refusing to explain in detail what happens if we flee Iraq."
Talk about "shrill"...

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2007, 10:52 AM
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He's a News Max / World Net Daily guy. They're nuts. I've read his stuff a lot, the guy is all over the map, hates Bush one week, loves him the next. The only one in that crowd who makes any sense is Buchanan, who at least has been consistent since the war started.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2007, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by pcunningham42
typical ..."demonize...don't debate, the facts will prove them right"

Taken from the ACLU's bylaws.....
Do you even have a clue on what the fuck it is you are even talking about? Jeez, what a fucking ditto head.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2007, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by maine_coon
Any thoughts or links to prove this statement?
Sure. Read this insightful article from this fucking idiot:

theOneRepublic - Dude, Where's My Civil War? by Ralph Peters

I wonder if he ever found his civil war that he claimed didn't exist.

Then try this one, where the war is lost, compare to above:

Last gasps in Iraq - Opinion - USATODAY.com

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
He's a News Max / World Net Daily guy. They're nuts. I've read his stuff a lot, the guy is all over the map, hates Bush one week, loves him the next. The only one in that crowd who makes any sense is Buchanan, who at least has been consistent since the war started.
I like and respect Buchanan, the man has a soul and adheres to his principles, which puts him head and shoulders above most of the crowd. He voices his opinions, backs them up, and doesn't go out of his way to ridicule those who disagree. IMO, he is a personification of what most political pundits should strive to become.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2007, 11:06 AM
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Look what this moron says in the first article in my links above:

"Instead of a civil war, something very different happened because of the bombing of the Golden Mosque in Samarra. The fanatic attempt to stir up Sunni-vs.-Shia strife, and the subsequent spate of violent attacks, caused popular support for the U.S. presence to spike upward."

He wrote that a year ago. What a stupid, clueless fuck. I hope the last mass casualty bombing sprayed brains all over his ass.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2007, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
I like and respect Buchanan, the man has a soul and adheres to his principles, which puts him head and shoulders above most of the crowd. He voices his opinions, backs them up, and doesn't go out of his way to ridicule those who disagree. IMO, he is a personification of what most political pundits should strive to become.
Of all the conservatives, he's been the one who has been right. He opposed the war, and predicted it would destroy the GOP. He was pilloried for it. The GOP was riding high and refused to listen. They paid, man did they pay. He is also as anti-corporate as any Democrat, and I love him for that.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2007, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Sure. Read this insightful article from this fucking idiot:

theOneRepublic - Dude, Where's My Civil War? by Ralph Peters

I wonder if he ever found his civil war that he claimed didn't exist.

Then try this one, where the war is lost, compare to above:

Last gasps in Iraq - Opinion - USATODAY.com
I read them both, thank you gutter gums. (feelthebitterness) I not quite sure what you are trying to say...he does a good job of laying out the facts in all three articles....
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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 07-11-2007, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by pcunningham42
Yours has been the first rational response, comment, I have heard since involving myself with this "Off topic" forum. None of the usual shrill cries from botnst mcbeer old3?? or our expat jerkarta.....(yet)
Well, some of us have been working.

Peters, for those who don't know is a writer who fancies himself as the next Tom Clancy, a retired Army Lt Col. who has staked out the position of Win at ALL COSTS.

His assertions that “Al-Qaeda-in-Iraq is suffering a humiliating defeat, as fellow Sunni Muslims turn against the fanatics and help them find the martyrdom they advertise.” is not only groundless but flies in the face of all evidence, including that of the military leaders on the ground. The interim report, due this week, suggests just the opposite of Peters comments. But let’s not let facts get in the way of a good stake in the ground.

He goes on to trash the Baker Hamilton Report, which was embraced by nearly everyone in the world, except the team that chose them for their expertise to make the honest assessment. And of course the Hawks who have never found a war they didn’t like.

Peters is a marginal fiction writer. He features hyperbola in much of his writing. We have more evidence today.

Does that cover shrill?

McBear,
Kentucky

Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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