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post #131 of 252 (permalink) Old 07-14-2007, 11:00 AM
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And what is wrong with what I said? Please explain Being a soldier is a job justlike any other and is no different than being a fire fighter, a cop , a teach, nurse, doctor, or a garbage man or a lawyer. If you have to call anyone a hero it should be nurses and other medical care givers who are in harms way much more than any other profession who have to work with patients from who they can catch terrible diseases and die a terrible death. Some jobs are more dangerous than others but that ALL they are, JOBS!

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post #132 of 252 (permalink) Old 07-14-2007, 11:01 AM
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And what is wrong with what I said? Please explain Being a soldier is a job justlike any other and is no different than being a fire fighter, a cop , a teach, nurse, doctor, or a garbage man or a lawyer. If you have to call anyone a hero it should be nurses and other medical care givers who are in harms way much more than any other profession who have to work with patients from who they can catch terrible diseases and die a terrible death. Some jobs are more dangerous than others but that ALL they are, JOBS!
Is that why most nurses say that doctors are of the opinion that M.D. stands for Major Deity? You seem to follow that fairly closely by stating that you are in the same category as a combat troop in Iraq or Afghanistan…..

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post #133 of 252 (permalink) Old 07-14-2007, 11:05 AM
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There is a question as to wether or not this war was/is optional Jim, When your guys were in office, they said the same things the bush administration said, but they didn't have the guts to act on it.
Our government was simply beating the drum of cold war paranoia to whip up a case to further American imperialism in Asia. How would we be better off had we "won" there? The only result I can think of, is that I'd be paying even more taxes than I am now to support an even more substantial military industrial complex. OTOH, it isn't difficult to imagine how we, the Vietnamese, and the world would be better off had we not gotten involved there in the first place.

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post #134 of 252 (permalink) Old 07-14-2007, 11:06 AM
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As a college teacher I contracted stupidity from my exposure to kids graduating from our underperforming high schools
Teachers, I forgot, are the biggest heroes! They get paid shit for the amount they give back to society and our future. Yet they do it with a smile on their face and with class. Yup, definitely more respectable than a soldier carrying a gun who can only be taught to point and shoot.
post #135 of 252 (permalink) Old 07-14-2007, 11:07 AM
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Teachers, I forgot, are the biggest heroes! They get paid shit for the amount they give back to society and our future. Yet they do it with a smile on their face and with class. Yup, definitely more respectable than a soldier carrying a gun who can only be taught to point and shoot.
I do it for $24 K a year with no options or hope for increases

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post #136 of 252 (permalink) Old 07-14-2007, 11:12 AM
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Is that why most nurses say that doctors are of the opinion that M.D. stands for Major Deity? You seem to follow that fairly closely by stating that you are in the same category as a combat troop in Iraq or Afghanistan…..
Its a job. Nothing big about it. He may die. If they were volunteering without getting paid, then HELL YESS and no other profession or hobby could match the heroism. Pat Tillman, yes because he left a multi million job! But only if he did it for the love of his country. From what I hear and I am not a big sports guy, he sucked as a player so he may also have done it for other motives such as gaining notoriety but only he knew.
No, I don't put myself in the same category. I put myself in a much higher category then any soldier including one who has died as I have given up 1/3 of my life in training for the love of this profession that alleviates pain and heals humans while getting paid shit because of the broken health care system.
post #137 of 252 (permalink) Old 07-14-2007, 11:17 AM
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I do it for $24 K a year with no options or hope for increases
Now this is a true hero! If you are telling the truth. I thought college professors made between $50,000-$120,000 I think even community colleges pay at least $40K. Are you part time?
post #138 of 252 (permalink) Old 07-14-2007, 11:19 AM
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There is a question as to wether or not this war was/is optional Jim, When your guys were in office, they said the same things the bush administration said, but they didn't have the guts to act on it.
Afghanistan was justified by 9-11-2001. Nothing happened after 9-11-2001 to suggest Iraq was a threat. Therefore, there was no justifiable reason to invade Iraq. And, there was never a justifiable reason to invade Iraq and screw the pooch with our military for going on 5 more years, with no concrete, identifiable, MILITARY mission. Covering Bush's mistakes is not a justifiable military mission. The invasion of Iraq was optional, and there is no evidence to the contrary. Invoking Clinton and quoting Clinton does nothing to help your argument. Obviously Clinton did not believe the threat he perceived Iraq posed warranted an invasion. This is a feature of a President who can exercise judgement. He saw, correctly, that the threat was being contained by the UN authorized actions.

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Cut and run, that seems to be a favorite comment from the left. Value lost? Maybe our credibility in the world. What's the use of being a "superpower" if your friends can count on the fact that you'll cut and run at the first opportunity?
I think I would like our friends to understand our "superpower" military is not available for optional confrontations they instigate, or that we might be inclined to instigate. When the military role is clear and appropriate, as determined by open debate, the American people will support the action. Iraq, and Vietnam, do not meet the standard of being military actions to protect the United States.

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Read your history Jim, we were "invited" there by the South Vietnamese government. The French are the ones that tried to recolonize Indo China, not us.
We were invited by a government that did not reflect the desire of the great majority of the population. I am sure you now see that. We were unsuccessful in South Vietnam not only because Americans determined there was no valid reason for our armed forces to be there, but also because the South Vietnamese people were not behind their corrupt government, the ones who invited us.


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That is a line of pure trash. It may go well in you circle of liberal friends, but in the real world, not so well.
Actually, it is dead on. You will come to that realization sooner or later. Our military should not be available for such poorly thought out, baseless and poorly planned military disasters ever again. That is how you honor our military.


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Sorry, I haven't got time to go through this point by point, I have more important things to do, like cut the grass. But keep in mind what designo said: "The soldier isn't doing shit for me or my rights. He is simply doing a job for which he is being paid through the taxes I give. It's his fucking JOB, nothing heroic about it. I owe the soldier nothing and they don't own me shit. Most should be happy to have a job as most usually enlist not for the love of their country but because they were useless to society and couldn't get into colleges. Armed forces was a meal ticket. Well, guess what, these days you actually have to earn it!"
Do you feel the same way, and how would your Father feel about that kind of comment?
This is your private argument with another. It has nothing to do with my point. Had I wished to enter into this discussion you would see a post from me on the subject. My point is we need to Cut 'n Run from Iraq, and the sooner the better as our continued presence is the embodiment of a perversely wrong headed strategy that is equally perversely bankrupt of a morally supportable purpose. Your twisted idea that a "victory in Iraq" will somehow vindicate the loss in South Vietnam, and justifies the continued loss of American soldiers on that basis is just perverse. Lets keep this on track. Jim
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post #139 of 252 (permalink) Old 07-14-2007, 11:46 AM
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Now this is a true hero! If you are telling the truth. I thought college professors made between $50,000-$120,000 I think even community colleges pay at least $40K. Are you part time?
Full time, but we are a private college that caters mainly to the government so cost is important. I am a newb compared to other faculty; I only have seven years at the facility. We have undergraduate and graduate schools so it's not like we are a trade school or something except that we teach very customized courses along traditional ones.

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post #140 of 252 (permalink) Old 07-14-2007, 11:55 AM
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Full time, but we are a private college that caters mainly to the government so cost is important. I am a newb compared to other faculty; I only have seven years at the facility. We have undergraduate and graduate schools so it's not like we are a trade school or something except that we teach very customized courses along traditional ones.
Drew, I have all the respect for you and would be happy and honored to shake your hand some day. As far as I am concerned, people like you are the true heros in this country. Thank you for your service to our nation!

Last edited by Designo_E320; 07-14-2007 at 12:02 PM.
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