Did Bush commit a crime by pardoning Libby? - Page 10 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

View Poll Results: Did Bush obstruct justice by pardoning Libby?
yes 17 45.95%
no 13 35.14%
maybe 7 18.92%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

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post #91 of 195 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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As I have stated previously, the danger to Bush is that he knows the answer to the central question of the last four years: was the invasion of Iraq planned before 9-11? If the answer is yes, Bush hijacked the 9-11 tragedy, and is as guilty as Adolf Hitler in a heinous war crime. Libby knows the answer to this question. The Plame affair, who cares.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

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post #92 of 195 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
I followed the Libby trial very closely, and there wasn't a shred of testimony that implicated Bush, in fact the sense was that Bush was completely out of the loop in regard to gathering and fabricating evidence to invade Iraq. OTOH, there was a great deal of testimony that pointed directly at Cheney. I have little doubt that Libby could crucify Cheney, but I'm not so sure he could lay a finger on Bush, if he were so inclined.
Your position that Bush's action on Libby's behalf did not benefit himself (Bush) does not mean that he did not take action to benefit his VP. Would that not be considered obstruction?

Let's keep in mind that all of my legal expertise comes from rent court, traffic court, Matlock and one day in court watching someone else's child custody battle.

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post #93 of 195 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 08:40 AM
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A president takes action for he interest of his people and some of you here are going to argue that what he did for Libby was for the interests of our nation, right? Oh and the invasion of Iraq was planned before 911 because it's good for us and the Iraqis and other Arabs are going to thank us for it for years to come with many presents, right? Oh and it made us all richer with cheaper oil while the uber rich are scrambling for new ways to make money, right?
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post #94 of 195 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 08:41 AM Thread Starter
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And frogs have wings so they won't bump their ass, right?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #95 of 195 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
As I have stated previously, the danger to Bush is that he knows the answer to the central question of the last four years: was the invasion of Iraq planned before 9-11? If the answer is yes, Bush hijacked the 9-11 tragedy, and is as guilty as Adolf Hitler in a heinous war crime. Libby knows the answer to this question. The Plame affair, who cares.
We all know the answer to that question, and that answer isn't going to land anyone in jail. This is all about Cheney. If you doubt it, read the transcript.

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post #96 of 195 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Digmenow
Your position that Bush's action on Libby's behalf did not benefit himself (Bush) does not mean that he did not take action to benefit his VP. Would that not be considered obstruction?

Let's keep in mind that all of my legal expertise comes from rent court, traffic court, Matlock and one day in court watching someone else's child custody battle.
Of course it benefited Bush. After all, these folks are collectively known as the "Bush administration". But Libby was Cheney's chief of staff, thus it is Cheney that Libby could place in harms way. I saw nothing from the trial that directly implicated Bush in regard to any wrong-doing.

"If spending money you don't have is the height of stupidity, borrowing money to give it away is the height of insanity." -- anon
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post #97 of 195 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by drewprof
A president takes action for he interest of his people and some of you here are going to argue that what he did for Libby was for the interests of our nation, right? Oh and the invasion of Iraq was planned before 911 because it's good for us and the Iraqis and other Arabs are going to thank us for it for years to come with many presents, right? Oh and it made us all richer with cheaper oil while the uber rich are scrambling for new ways to make money, right?
An awful lot of speculation there, and nothing to back it up......... If and when you have proof, that would be the time to charge Bush, Cheney, or anyone else involved. Until that time, how about some of you back off some, and quit acting like your OPINIONS are unquestionable facts. Bush deserves the same NOT GUILTY until PROVEN otherwise that anyone else gets. Fanatical behavior and foul language never proved anything did it………………

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post #98 of 195 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
Of course it benefited Bush. After all, these folks are collectively known as the "Bush administration". But Libby was Cheney's chief of staff, thus it is Cheney that Libby could place in harms way. I saw nothing from the trial that directly implicated Bush in regard to any wrong-doing.

Sorry for the vagueness. I was dealing with the original thread question.

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post #99 of 195 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce R.
An awful lot of speculation there, and nothing to back it up......... If and when you have proof, that would be the time to charge Bush, Cheney, or anyone else involved. Until that time, how about some of you back off some, and quit acting like your OPINIONS are unquestionable facts. Bush deserves the same NOT GUILTY until PROVEN otherwise that anyone else gets. Fanatical behavior and foul language never proved anything did it………………
Oh I am sorry, I should put myself in my humble space and not question Emperor Bush's actions and motives. I want some of your Kool Aid to chill out and accept the fate of our nation as you and his highness see it
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post #100 of 195 (permalink) Old 07-06-2007, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GermanStar
Of course it benefited Bush. After all, these folks are collectively known as the "Bush administration". But Libby was Cheney's chief of staff, thus it is Cheney that Libby could place in harms way. I saw nothing from the trial that directly implicated Bush in regard to any wrong-doing.
It is being suggested that the view you got during the trial is the "string" that might be pulled if Libby had to fend for himself. It is also being suggested that Bush has some personal stake in preventing that string from being pulled. While it is speculative, I think it is supported by the pattern of lying and misleading this Administration has established. And, if Bush let Cheney fall under the bus, what makes anyone think he wouldn't turn? I sincerely doubt any one of them is more or less guilty of obstructing justice, as I doubt any of them are more or less guilty of misusing their authority as elected government officials. I also doubt Libby will be the string that gets pulled. So nothing is going to happen. Jim
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