Post Apartheid South Africa, an example for the people of Iraq
Benzworld members,
For peace to be attained in Iraq I believe the Iraqi people should look to South Africa and the example set forth from Nelson Mandela when the nation of South Africa took a new direction forming Multiculturalism in Post-Apartheid South Africa.
Is it possible for Sunni, Shia, Kurds, Christians and other minorities that live in Iraq to attain the same goals as the South Africans have in post apartheid South Africa?
Iraq needs a Nelson Mandela !
Who do you recommend can be that person to unite the people of Iraq to forgive and look towards the future of their nation to provide security and freedom for their people that would lead to the departure of foreign troops in their nation?
"That currently peace can only be accomplished with an honest broker not with Terroristic attacks. For our nation young people need to become more involved in our governmental process because they need direction in their life and the U.S. Army is the place to grow. The military is a great extended family that will only benefit our future."
Marco Benz Descendant of First Gas Automobile Inventor Karl Benz
Please this is a serious topic and I am requesting a viable candidate that can mend the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people for a prosperous future.
If you recommend his daughter Rana Hussein or his grandson Ali Hussein (allegedly to be his son from his second wife Samira Shahbandar) that is fine but please lets have a positive dialogue based on issues.
Who do you recommend can be that person to unite the people of Iraq to forgive and look towards the future of their nation to provide security and freedom for their people that would lead to the departure of foreign troops in their nation?
Respectfully,
James Van Thach
Last edited by James_Van_Thach : 06-25-2007 at 06:00 AM.
He won't need a credit check by the Bush Administration nor the MI5.....has an excellent track record working with the British Secret Service and would have made it as the new James Bond albeit for his bald head! heh, heh....
James, good luck with getting a serious discussion around here, but I'll give you a "for what it's worth" opinion.
Iconic revolutionary heroes to a nation like Mandela, Ho Chi Minh, Mao, Lenin, Bolivar, or Washington cannot simply plop on top from nowhere. A brief look at the history of those individuals will reveal that each was involved in revolution from the beginning and rose to leadership through skill and personal qualities of leadership.
Saddam murdered anybody who could possibly have offered that level of leadership and Saddam murdered anybody who offered support for any movement, and Saddam murdered the relatives, friends, neighbors and in some cases villages, of supporters of reform. He maintained that level of oppression during his entire reign essentially weeding the garden for a generation. There were hardly any weed seeds left.
The revolutionary characters left alive were all exiles. Choosing exile was the wise thing to do but will never inspire confidence in the people who remained behind and suffered the despots depradations.
So I don't believe a single individual will be able to unite Iraq.
That is not to say that Iraq cannot be united. It was in fact, a coherent and largely peaceful satrapy for many generations through various caliphates. Sometimes the place was peaceful and quite liberal by Arab standards and other times is was murderously oppressive, even by Arab standards. When talking policy and politics, we have a tendency to look at history in segments just long enough to support a particular point of contention and downplay other historical intervals that do not support a particular contention. Iraq is a perfect example of that type of historical analysis.
In the great sweep of history, it was more like Belorussia or Poland than it was like say, Greece or Italy. It was a maneuvering ground for armies passing through to conquer some other place. It had an inconvenient collection of transverse rivers a hideously dry desert, and agriculturally poor mountains. As a state, it was impossible to defend and as a dominion, it was difficult to manage. Since the Babylonian period it was a dominion of one power or another with each army bringing it's culture and tribalism into the region first as a veneer of conquest, later as another addition to the amalgam to be conquered by the next army.
There are only two ways to rule Iraq from within Iraq: Absolute despotism or some form of democracy. It has too many tribes and cultures and too many outside influences for any other forms to attain stability. It cannot depend on an iconic leader because all possibilities for fullfilling that role were murdered and exiles will never be accepted as iconic leaders.
Conceptually, I think the best case possible to look for in history would be the French Revolution, which had no iconic leader in the beginning and passed through 20 years of butchery before the people tired of the continuous revolutionary fervor. France eventually developed it's own version of democracy, but searched the world for models during the process. It is far from a perfect precedence in history (in truth, no historical precedence is every complete and accurate), but it maybe instructive to some degree.
B
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How about Chalabi, he seems to be in touch with everyone; he works for Iran, he wants us to believe that he works for us and most importantly Israel as a great partner and oil provider through a tans-Jordanian pipeline. The dude is Teflon just like Cheney, I guess that's quality enough for leadership in a cesspool like Iraq. Notice I never mentioned that he worked for Iraq which is the exact kind of leader that traditionally warms our heart.
Oh Sharif al Hashimi (Sharif Ibn Ali Al Hussein) will do for us too. He can claim a throne in Iraq to reclaim the Hashemite family's rule of Iraq. So is that what you want to sell us?
How about Chalabi, he seems to be in touch with everyone; he works for Iran, he wants us to believe that he works for us and most importantly Israel as a great partner and oil provider through a tans-Jordanian pipeline. The dude is Teflon just like Cheney, I guess that's quality enough for leadership in a cesspool like Iraq. Notice I never mentioned that he worked for Iraq which is the exact kind of leader that traditionally warms our heart.
Oh Sharif al Hashimi (Sharif Ibn Ali Al Hussein) will do for us too. He can claim a throne in Iraq to reclaim the Hashemite family's rule of Iraq. So is that what you want to sell us?
drewprof,
I believe Sharif Ali bin al-Hussein would be good candidate because he would be able to align himself with the King Abdullah II of Jordan.
How about Chalabi, he seems to be in touch with everyone; he works for Iran, he wants us to believe that he works for us and most importantly Israel as a great partner and oil provider through a tans-Jordanian pipeline. The dude is Teflon just like Cheney, I guess that's quality enough for leadership in a cesspool like Iraq. Notice I never mentioned that he worked for Iraq which is the exact kind of leader that traditionally warms our heart.
Oh Sharif al Hashimi (Sharif Ibn Ali Al Hussein) will do for us too. He can claim a throne in Iraq to reclaim the Hashemite family's rule of Iraq. So is that what you want to sell us?
Unlike Cheney & his republican backers, I do not think that Chalabi is trusted even by his own backers within the Shiite community.
James, I respect that fact that you are looking into a viable solution to this mess but think about how we will be labeled as hypocrites if we help install a monarchy in Iraq rather than let the people of Iraq decide for themselves if they deserve a country and liberty. I am all for both of those guys to run as candidates as presidents or prime minister or even parliament members but the king thing is kind of passé don't you think? I mean would you watch a sequel of Lawrence or Arabia with Rice going from one camp to another then gets ass raped by the Turks or something? If a monarchy is no longer taboo then why not go all the way and give Iraq to Israel? This way it will be theirs to manage and control. Who else is better than the Israelis at controlling Arabs into living in refugee camps for generation upon generation? All we have to do is give Israel more money and armament; wouldn’t that make a lot of people happy? In addition, think of all the oil that we will have total access to without the threat of nationalization like in Venezuela or other parts of the oil producing world. I mean really, do you think our taxpayers are concerned about an Iraqi child or rather how much it costs them to fill up a tank of gas? Let’s not beat around the bush and play it like we care, because if we did we would have picked another country to “retaliate” for 911.
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Post Apartheid South Africa, an example for the people of Iraq 
Saddam 2 
Please this is a serious topic 
Sharif Ali bin al-Hussein would be good candidate 
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