Russian fighter planes sale to Syria alarms Israel - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #61 of 91 (permalink) Old 06-20-2007, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Designo_E320
I'll share my food with you. I'm having Lamb curry
Thanks for the gesture but I am heading out for some dumpster diving. I called the local pizza delivery and gave him a bogus address now I am cetrain where to find "my pizza"
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post #62 of 91 (permalink) Old 06-20-2007, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by drewprof
Thanks for the gesture but I am heading out for some dumpster diving. I called the local pizza delivery and gave him a bogus address now I am cetrain where to find "my pizza"
ok, but you are more than welcome to come sit at my table any day
post #63 of 91 (permalink) Old 06-20-2007, 06:09 PM
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ok, but you are more than welcome to come sit at my table any day
Cool I will bring with me some wild bore sausage that I had preserved in my basment. It's fantastic specially with a 1982 Chateau Lafitte and some rinds.
I hope it's ok that I share with yu some of my peasant food
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post #64 of 91 (permalink) Old 06-21-2007, 03:08 AM
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Cool I will bring with me some wild bore sausage that I had preserved in my basment. It's fantastic specially with a 1982 Chateau Lafitte and some rinds.
I hope it's ok that I share with yu some of my peasant food
.....You cracka boy have not learnt your lesson from last night......now you behave punk ........or your preserved stinking sausage from the basement will have a wee company .....a fresh one from between your legs albeit miniscule in size! heh, heh....
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post #65 of 91 (permalink) Old 06-21-2007, 05:20 AM
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[edit]

The Six-Day War
See the main article: Six-Day War.
In between the war of 1965 and the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971, PAF sent its pilots to many Arab nations during the Six-Day War. Pakistani pilots flew in the Air Forces of Jordan, Egypt and Iraq, recording 3 confirmed kills against the Israeli Air Force (including Mirages, Mystères and Vautours) without losing any of their own planes. Flight Lieutenant Saif-ul-Azam was decorated by both Jordanian and Iraqi governments for shooting down Israeli planes.[7] Pakistan Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yom Kippur War
See the main article: Yom Kippur War.
During this war the PAF sent 16 pilots to the Middle East in order to support Egypt and Syria but by the time they arrived, Egypt had already been pushed into a ceasefire. Syria remained in a state of war against Israel. Eight (8) PAF pilots started flying out of Syrian Airbases; they formed the A-flight of 67 Squadron at Dumayr Airbase.

The Pakistani pilots flew Syrian Mig-21 aircraft conducting CAP missions for the Syrians. Flt/Lt. A. Sattar Alvi became the first Pakistani pilot, during the Yom Kippur War, to shoot down an Israeli Mirage in air combat[9] [10]. He was honored by the Syrian government[11]. Other aerial encounters involved Israeli F4 Phantoms; Pakistan Air Force did not lose a single pilot or aircraft during this war.

The Pakistani pilots stayed on in Syria until 1976, training Syrian pilots in the art of air warfare.

Pakistan Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

DO NOT UNDER ESTIMATE THE PAKISTANI AIR FORCE. NOT A SINGLE LOSS IN BOTH OF ABOVE CONFLICTS! There are probably hundreds of retired fighter pilots that would love to get a chance to fly again IMO!


Pakistani involvement and aid
United States President Jimmy Carter had accepted the view that "Soviet aggression" could not be viewed as an isolated event of limited geographical importance but had to be contested as a potential threat to the Persian Gulf region. The uncertain scope of the final objective of Moscow in its sudden southward plunge made the American stake in an independent Pakistan all the more important.

After the Soviet deployment, Pakistan's military dictator General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq started accepting financial aid from the Western powers to aid the Mujahideen. The United States, the United Kingdom and Saudi Arabia became major financial contributors to General Zia, who, as ruler of a neighboring country, greatly helped by ensuring the Afghan resistance was well-trained and well-funded. The People's Republic of China also sold Type 69 RPGs to Mujahideen in co-operation with the CIA, as did Egypt with the Kalashnikov rifles. Of particular significance was the donation of American-made FIM-92 Stinger anti-aircraft missile systems, which increased aircraft losses of the Soviet Air Force.

Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) and Special Service Group (SSG) were actively involved in the conflict, and in cooperation with the CIA and the United States Army Special Forces, as well as the British Special Air Service, supported the armed struggle against the Soviets. After Ronald Reagan became the new United States President in 1981, aid for the Mujahideen through Zia's Pakistan significantly increased. In retaliation, the KHAD, under Afghan leader Mohammad Najibullah, carried out (according to the Mitrokhin archives and other sources) a large number of operations against Pakistan, which also suffered from an influx of weaponry and drugs from Afghanistan.

In the 1980s, as the front-line state in the anti-Soviet struggle, Pakistan received substantial aid from the United States and took in millions of Afghan (mostly Pashtun) refugees fleeing the Soviet occupation. Although the refugees were controlled within Pakistan's largest province, Balochistan under then-martial law ruler General Rahimuddin Khan, the influx of so many refugees - believed to be the largest refugee population in the world [30] - into several other regions had a heavy impact on Pakistan and its effects continue to this day. Despite this, Pakistan played a significant role in the eventual withdrawal of Soviet military personnel from Afghanistan.

Soviet war in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I’ll make this REAL simple so that even YOU can understand it:
The US taught them all they know about air to air combat, but we didn't teach them all WE know about air to air combat............ Add to that the fact that we were covering their back 100% of the time and the appearance of things change rapidly.
Couple that with the rather obvious errors you Wiki "expert" has made in his aircraft designations and you really have to wonder who is playing with whose mind..............
The last real air to air combat was in Korea and Vietnam, with the Israelis having a go at it with the Arabs on occasion. Real combat is with guns, not missiles, and the Jews have a lock on that right now. Anybody can get a lucky kill with a Sidewinder or a Sparrow when they work right, but it takes skill to fly a plane close enough to wack a guy with a gun. The Paki’s may be good in your opinion, but they are not even close to the US, Russians, Germans, Israelis, or even most of the other second tier air forces.

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post #66 of 91 (permalink) Old 06-21-2007, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Bruce R.
I’ll make this REAL simple so that even YOU can understand it:
The US taught them all they know about air to air combat, but we didn't teach them all WE know about air to air combat............ Add to that the fact that we were covering their back 100% of the time and the appearance of things change rapidly.
Couple that with the rather obvious errors you Wiki "expert" has made in his aircraft designations and you really have to wonder who is playing with whose mind..............
The last real air to air combat was in Korea and Vietnam, with the Israelis having a go at it with the Arabs on occasion. Real combat is with guns, not missiles, and the Jews have a lock on that right now. Anybody can get a lucky kill with a Sidewinder or a Sparrow when they work right, but it takes skill to fly a plane close enough to wack a guy with a gun. The Paki’s may be good in your opinion, but they are not even close to the US, Russians, Germans, Israelis, or even most of the other second tier air forces.
Did the US teach those lunatic saudis who flew into the twin towers as well? Real simple to understand?
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post #67 of 91 (permalink) Old 06-21-2007, 06:01 AM
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Yeah, if I remember correctly they attended flight schools in the USA. Part of the burden of being an open society is that bad people take advantage of it.

And they weren't nuts. They were oppressed third world people who believed that they had no choice in their fervent desire to express themselves in opposition to free market democracy. Get with the program.

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post #68 of 91 (permalink) Old 06-21-2007, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
Yeah, if I remember correctly they attended flight schools in the USA. Part of the burden of being an open society is that bad people take advantage of it.

And they weren't nuts. They were oppressed third world people who believed that they had no choice in their fervent desire to express themselves in opposition to free market democracy. Get with the program.

B
heh, heh.....oppressed? And Saudis at that? You need to touch base on reality! These lunatics were more american than you or any other red-neck from Texas! But I remain skeptical about their ability to precision-manouvre those planes smack into the towers - that called for experience which you don't get from your average "learn flying for idiots" schools but more likely from long term air force calibre pilot training!
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post #69 of 91 (permalink) Old 06-21-2007, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Punjabi
You need to touch base on reality! These lunatics were more american than you or any other red-neck from Texas! But I remain skeptical about their ability to precision-manouvre those planes smack into the towers - that called for experience which you don't get from your average "learn flying for idiots" schools but more likely from long term air force calibre pilot training!
Uhhhh, no.

If by more american you mean that they liked to go to strip clubs and drink lots of alcohol ok.

There was no precision manouvering involved with these plans. Yes you are moving at a pretty good clip but it does not require a huge amount of skill to hit the side of a large building. It certainly does not take long term training of "air force calibre"

Have you flown or even been on an airplane?
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post #70 of 91 (permalink) Old 06-21-2007, 09:23 AM
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Uhhhh, no.

If by more american you mean that they liked to go to strip clubs and drink lots of alcohol ok.

There was no precision manouvering involved with these plans. Yes you are moving at a pretty good clip but it does not require a huge amount of skill to hit the side of a large building. It certainly does not take long term training of "air force calibre"

Have you flown or even been on an airplane?

well, there is nothing more to being an american than visit the gay bars, strip clubs, drink alchohol and munch a burgher king or am I missing something? heh, heh....you didn't train those Saudi boys, did you? Basically, what I am getting at is that the Saudis lack the mental aptitude and co-ordination required to fly like the way those planes sweeped into the towers, had to be someone else!

Maybe not my area of expertise as I have never flown or been in a plane......I travel on a camel and sometimes in a beat-up Dodge! heh, heh......
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