If You Can End the War How Would You Do So - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 01:06 PM
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FTL - You might have responded to the wrong post...I never said anything of the sort...??
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post #12 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shane
Compromise. Schedule an eventual walk out. Set goals for the Iraqi gov't, but expect them to be missed. Surround the oil and take it for as long as possible and stop the "bringing democracy" spin. Level with the American people on what you are doing and why you are doing it. Bend your point of view to their will. If they want out sooner, then exit. If they have the stomach to keep snicking the oil then work on it. Personally I think we need the oil without all the PC trimmings. Manipulate as best as possible the control of the oil through economics and bribery (aka, the usual.)
Good points made.


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Originally Posted by Designo_E320
Cut complete funding for the war and bring back the troops.
As far as fighting terrorism, It only exists because of our unequivocal and unilateral backing of a certain Zionist country that is not even in our control and from whom we do not get an iota of benefit in anyway. Stop all funding to them and let them take care of themselves. Let them fend for themselves and the terrorism against the US will stop dead in its tracks. Why should we be fighting Israel's war for them and getting out young fine men killed and crippled for life. Just doesn't make sense. All of these radical Islamists don't hate the US, rather they hate the US policy towards middle east and particularly the policy of Israel and Palestine that clearly favors Israel while the Palestinians suffer and are systemically being exterminated and forced to live in the stone age.
Let's do the math here: Please one country and let the whole world hate us and suffer more terrorist attacks on our people or say FU to one country and tell them that they are on their own and have all of the world love us.
I can clearly see where your headed with this one, and feel your fustration in this regard.

I think that this administrations has not only made things worste for other countries but has even took a shit where we sleep...and thats a no no. Its clear this government has done alot of damage that will take over 100 years to fix. All we have to do as AMERICANs is look at our history and world history to find a true resolution. Yes, exit ASAP and thats not running. We are currently scrambling to find a way out while keeping face, but it will never happen, we will never win the war on terror because it doesnt exsist.

We are in a war of the worlds, fighting generations of political views while smack in the middle of a world economic crisis. Exiting the occupied countries wont change the fact that this is a "WAR FOR RESOURCES" and not a war on terror. We can sit here and call as many political factions terrorist, but unless you lost your entire way of living and decided to take arms then how can we judge one political faction over the other.

The media feeds us here in the states with bullshit, but our administrations is starting to see we are spitting it back out. This administrations has fucked up big time, and now is the time for them to except thier loses and sit down with other counties and work this shit out on a Macro level. Shit, if not for thier own selfish greed than for the 1,000s of men and women dieing over this. If we realy felt so strong about spreading democracy then why havent we help the millions who died in Africa since the 70's. Now we wanna applie sanctions, yet we went into Iraq guns blazing, but the top brass knew execlty what they where doing after and before 9-11. For our GOV to continuesly put the lost lives of our country men and women in our faces as an excuse is the saddest of all.

To me I think to top all this off is we actualy do have the power to end this. Start by eliminating the deaths of our soldiers, then aggressively look at what we are up againts. Its sad but the truth is that its a civil war of political factions fighting with thier own agenda and view they feel justified by beliefs. Look at the offspring of violance going on out side our country. We have put other countries in danger.
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post #13 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 01:16 PM
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FTL - You might have responded to the wrong post...I never said anything of the sort...??
Yup, that was Shane's post.

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post #14 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 01:16 PM Thread Starter
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Yes. More is at stake than oil. Our prosperity for one and without this any country in known history is in decline. I refuse to watch the USA decline other than through their own free will.
I commend you on your resolve, but in no way is oil worth the lives of our men and women. We are the strongest and most intectual country. We currently have vast resources here. We can fund research through world trade, yet it is our current way of thinking that sets us back. We eat off of other peoples plates when we are hungry while all the mean while stock piling in our basements.

I think we can do alot for ourselves by redusing consumption of goods and increasing production of natuaral resources here in the states.
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post #15 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by slybydesignw210
I like the amount of intellect here. This is a serious question that I would like to keep that way. If you had four years to end this war and stabilize the economy in the middle east, while maintaining your a good standing with the world community how would you do so?
Are you starting the clock on this primise NOW? If so, I don't think the primise can be supported. First, we are not in a war, we are in a police action at this point. We are acting as the City and State Police for Iraq as they work through their Civil War [that we triggered].

Since to many in Iraq we are targets BECAUSE we are there, ending the fighting might be STARTED by our leaving, quickly. Then their war is ONLY between them and we are not a third instigating factor in the formula. It is easier for two sides to quit a fight than for three or four sides to quit.

Stabilization of their economy is only going to occur after they quit their Civil War and that has to be done internally by the Iraqis, not by us.

Our good standing in the World is going to start getting on the right track by deeds around the world, and it will start when we quit trying to be an Imperial Nation and start acting like we are part of the world, not trying to run it.

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post #16 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 02:44 PM
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I must admit that I'm increasingly a proponent of immediate withdrawl. In fact, leave all of our shit behind. Fuck it. Turn over the keys to the Iraqi government. Civil wars are ugly times, yes, but necessary for a nation to define itself. It's time to see who wants Iraq the most. We should be out of the picture.

The John McCain argument, to me, is outright fearmongering - "If we leave there, they'll follow us back here." Whatever you kooky old fucker...they can bring it, we'll show them what for. Nobody can possibly look down their nose at us for defending our homeland, either. Problems solved.
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post #17 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
I must admit that I'm increasingly a proponent of immediate withdrawl. In fact, leave all of our shit behind. Fuck it. Turn over the keys to the Iraqi government. Civil wars are ugly times, yes, but necessary for a nation to define itself. It's time to see who wants Iraq the most. We should be out of the picture.

The John McCain argument, to me, is outright fearmongering - "If we leave there, they'll follow us back here." Whatever you kooky old fucker...they can bring it, we'll show them what for. Nobody can possibly look down their nose at us for defending our homeland, either. Problems solved.
Yay! I'm so glad there are people on the right with the capacity for rational thought! I might not agree with you on many issues, or even on this particular one to the detail, but kudos for using the head on top of your shoulders.

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post #18 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
I must admit that I'm increasingly a proponent of immediate withdrawl. In fact, leave all of our shit behind. Fuck it. Turn over the keys to the Iraqi government. Civil wars are ugly times, yes, but necessary for a nation to define itself. It's time to see who wants Iraq the most. We should be out of the picture.

The John McCain argument, to me, is outright fearmongering - "If we leave there, they'll follow us back here." Whatever you kooky old fucker...they can bring it, we'll show them what for. Nobody can possibly look down their nose at us for defending our homeland, either. Problems solved.
Escalating the war by throwing a few thousand more US soldiers into a Police Action where the troops as peacemakers just become the lightning rod for hatred by practically all Sunnis and Shiites over there makes the whole exercise pointless. Let them work it out.

Using that Bush/Mc Cain logic, we really need to send troops into Palestine's Gaza and the West Bank. Make them behave, and stuff some American style democracy down their throats whether they want it or not.

Same situation, exactly. Oops, no oil under the ground there, though.

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Last edited by cascade; 06-14-2007 at 02:57 PM.
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post #19 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cascade
Escalating the war by throwing a few thousand more US soldiers into a Police Action where the troops as peacemakers just become the lightning rod for hatred by practically all Sunnis and Shiites over there makes the whole exercise pointless. Let them work it out.

Using that Bush/Mc Cain logic, we really need to send troops into Palestine's Gaza and the West Bank. Make them behave, and stuff some American style democracy down their throats whether they want it or not.

Same situation, exactly. Oops, no oil under the ground there, though.

I was behind the prospect of a surge, but we fucked that up too by half-assing it. We didn't commit to enough troops, setting everyone up for failure. If we weren't willing to go all-in, well, that should have been a gut check.
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post #20 of 53 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
I must admit that I'm increasingly a proponent of immediate withdrawl. In fact, leave all of our shit behind. Fuck it. Turn over the keys to the Iraqi government. Civil wars are ugly times, yes, but necessary for a nation to define itself. It's time to see who wants Iraq the most. We should be out of the picture.

The John McCain argument, to me, is outright fearmongering - "If we leave there, they'll follow us back here." Whatever you kooky old fucker...they can bring it, we'll show them what for. Nobody can possibly look down their nose at us for defending our homeland, either. Problems solved.
Come on, walk towards the light...... cross over.... to the other side... there is nothing but pain here.....

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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