Interesting read on Israel and Palestinian state - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #1 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 09:10 AM
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Thumbs up Interesting read on Israel and Palestinian state

(This was posted over at MS by PLANTMAN)

*J*ERUSALEM -- The banners that hang from downtown lampposts are emblazoned with the numeral 40. Black-and-white photos of soldiers capturing the Old City are on exhibit at museums. But there's no mood of celebration on the 40th anniversary of Israel's historic victory in the Six-Day War -- which led to the occupation of Gaza and the West Bank.

Few Israelis imagined, back then, that they would still control the lives of more than 3.5 million Palestinians in 2007. Polls have long shown that majorities of Israelis and Palestinians accept the idea of two states. Yet the Oslo peace process has collapsed into mutual recriminations and violent chaos in Gaza.

Palestinian and Israeli leaders are too weak to produce new ideas. The sense of drift is overwhelming. Few will admit that the idea of a two-state solution is dead, because the alternatives -- for both sides -- are so grim. But what I saw last week as I traveled the villages and dusty, terrace-lined West Bank hills was extremely troubling.

Events on the ground are pushing Israelis and Palestinians toward a de facto one-state situation. If the two-state concept dies, Israel is left ruling more than two million Palestinians in the West Bank and effectively controlling an additional 1.4 million in Gaza. Add to that more than one million Palestinian Arabs who are citizens of Israel.

What will that mean?

''Between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean are 10-11 million people,'' says the noted Israeli philosopher Avishai Margalit, who has long been a campaigner for two states. ``It's very clear with the Palestinian birthrate, which is one of the highest in the world, that almost in no time there will be a clear majority of Arabs in this state.''

Israel will then have to choose between giving those Arabs political rights or stand accused of running a system that resembles apartheid. But enfranchising an Arab majority would spell the end of the Jewish state.

*One-state by default*

No one except a naif or a political propagandist could believe that Israelis and Palestinians could live together in one state without civil war. Proponents of one state are mainly extremists like Hamas who want one state without Jews, or ultranationalist Israelis who would like to expel the Palestinians.

But what I saw on this trip makes me fear that Israel is headed in the one-state direction by default.

Drive out of Jerusalem with yellow Israeli license plates, and you are entitled to travel on highways that whiz you across the West Bank and back into Israel. But those roads are mostly off limits to Palestinians with white West Bank plates.

The prospect for any kind of viable Palestinian state is disappearing as Palestinian land and towns are split into disconnected cantons by these roads, by Israeli settlements and by Israel's security fence. Villagers must procure hard-to-get permits to visit their land or to pass through gates in the security fence. Crops rot because families can't get enough permits to reach their land, or because villagers can't travel to the towns to sell their produce.

*Tall concrete slabs*

For security reasons, Israel has limited Palestinian travel into and out of most towns and villages in ways that can make farming and commerce almost impossible. Off the road to Hebron, I stood on a rocky hill overlooking several Arab villages consisting of boxy concrete houses in a valley below the apartment buildings and villas of the settlement Rosh Zurim. A well-paved settler road was paralleled by a broken, potholed part-dirt road that curved to the Arab village of Khallet Sakariya. But Israel had blocked this access road with boulders, forcing villagers to detour miles out of their way to a permissible road.

Farther south, Palestinian traffic to the major town of Hebron is funneled through a narrow urban road in nearby Halhoul that is not suited for heavy commerce. Drivers on Palestinian roads find themselves suddenly cut off by the Israeli security wall and fence, which zigzags across many roads and Palestinian lands, linking many Israeli settlements to pre-1967 Israel. As I drove into Bethlehem, I suddenly found myself hemmed in by a segment of the tall concrete slabs of the wall that protects the Jewish religious site of Rachel's Tomb.

Since the second Palestinian uprising in 2000, Israel has had genuine reasons for concern about security and preventing movement of suicide bombers into Israel. But the network of walls, fences, berms, tunnels, checkpoints and restricted roads chops Palestinian land and life into segments that make commerce, let alone statehood, impossible.

*Israel's security needs*

''It might be efficient for security, but it has wrecked the economy and social fabric, and restricted the ability to get to hospitals or schools,'' I was told by David Shearer, head of the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs in Jerusalem. It is now almost impossible, for example, for West Bank Palestinians to enter the Arab part of Jerusalem, which contains the best Palestinian hospitals and used to be the West Bank's intellectual and religious hub.

Again, none of this is to dispute Israel's genuine security needs. Yet much of the security infrastructure on the West Bank seems dedicated more to protecting the Jewish settlers who live there than protecting pre-1967 Israel. Settlements keep expanding, requiring even more protection, and making it even less likely that Palestinians can get a contiguous state.

In this uncertain political time, it may be impossible to make any headway toward two states. But it makes no sense to close off that possibility for the future with settlements that are expanding and have an air of permanence.

*`Public desperation'*

I spoke with an extraordinary Israeli human rights activist who works to help Palestinians get access to Jerusalem hospitals, and asked her thoughts on whether Israel is creating a one-state trap.

''The Israeli public is asleep on this,'' said Hadas Ziv, executive director of Physicians for Human Rights, Israel. In the wake of the failed Lebanon war and the Gaza troubles, ``The public don't want to know (about West Bank conditions). They don't know what to do. There is public desperation.''

Ziv believes the international community should raise the issue.

Surely this is a subject on which the Bush administration, as a friend of Israel, should weigh in strongly. Otherwise, the slide toward a one-state reality will continue until it cannot be reversed.

©2007 The Philadelphia Inquirer
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post #2 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 09:12 AM
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The answers are in the Jewish scriptures and law and how they are to behave. READ BELOW:

Only Jews are human. [Gentiles] are animals. (Baba Mezia 114a-114b.)9
For murder, whether of a Cuthean [Gentile] by a Cuthean, or of an Israelite by a Cuthean, punishment is incurred; but of a Cuthean by an Israelite, there is no death penalty. (Sanhedrin 57a)10
Even the best of the [Gentiles] should be killed. (Babylonian Talmud)11
If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there. (Moed Kattan 17a.)
Gentiles' flesh is as the flesh of asses and whose issue is like the issue of horses.12
If a heathen [Gentile] hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed. Hitting a Jew is hitting God. (Sanhedrin 58b.)13
If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite [Gentile] gores an ox of an Israelite...the payment is to be in full. (Baba Kamma 37b.)14
If a Jew finds an object lost by a heathen [Gentile] it does not have to be returned. (Baba Mezia 24a; Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b.)15
God will not spare a Jew who 'marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean [Gentile]... (Sanhedrin 76a.)16
What a Jew obtains by theft from a Cuthean [Gentile] he may keep. (Sanhedrin 57a.)17
[Gentiles] are outside the protection of the law and God has 'exposed their money to Israel.' (Baba Kamma 37b.)18
Jews may use lies ('subterfuges') to circumvent a [Gentile]. (Baba Kamma 113a.)19
All [Gentile] children are animals. (Yebamoth 98a.)20
[Gentiles] prefer sex with cows. (Abodah Zarah 22a-22b.)21
The vessels of [Gentiles], do they not impart a worsened flavor to the food cooked in them? (Abodah Zarah 67b.)22

"The modern Jew is the product of the Talmud..."
"Babylonian Talmud", published by the Boston Talmud Society, p. XII

The Jews refer to the remainder of Earths inhabitants, the non-Jewish peoples, as "Gentiles", "Goyim". Let's see what the Jewish Talmud teaches the Jews concerning the non-Jewish majority, i.e. those who are not part of Jahve's "Chosen People":

"The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts."

Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b

"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to honor the the dog more than the non-Jew."

Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 30

"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal. Therfore he will be served by animals in human form."

Midrasch Talpioth, p. 255, Warsaw 1855

"A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal."

Coschen hamischpat 405

"The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits and are called pigs."

Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b

"Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human."

Schene luchoth haberith, p. 250 b

"If you eat with a Gentile, it is the same as eating with a dog."

Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b

"If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his oxen or asses had died"."

Jore dea 377, 1

"Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals."

Talmud Sanhedrin 74b

"It is permitted to take the body and the life of a Gentile."

Sepher ikkarim III c 25

"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah."

Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5

"A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands."

Talmud, Abodah Zara, 4b

"Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God."

Talmud: Bammidber raba c 21 & Jalkut 772

post #3 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 09:13 AM
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What kind of moral foundations do Jews of the media rest upon, that they could consciously ignite and fan the flames of a sexual inferno that continues to ravage our once Christian society?

Virtually all the media moguls who founded Hollywood and the big three TV networks were immigrants, or their children, from predominantly orthodox Jewish communities in Eastern Europe.

In the late 19th century, most European Jews were a people of the book. But their book wasn’t the Bible. It was the Babylonian Talmud. To this day, the Talmud remains Judaism’s highest moral, ethical and legal authority.

Does the Talmud share Christianity's foundation of wholesome moral values? Hardly. Instead, the Talmud is the sleazy substrata of a religious system gone terribly astray; it is that code of Pharisaic unbelief Christ described as "full of all uncleanness" (Matt. 23:27). Shockingly, Judaism’s most revered authority actually endorses such sins as lying, oath-breaking, and indirect murder. And it even sanctions one of the greatest sins of all: child molestation.

Three Year Old Brides

When Christ accused the Pharisees of His day of being Satan’s spiritual children, He fully realized what they were capable of. Second century Rabbi Simeon ben Yohai, one of Judaism’s very greatest rabbis and a creator of Kabbalah, sanctioned pedophilia—permitting molestation of baby girls even younger than three! He proclaimed, “A proselyte who is under the age of three years and a day is permitted to marry a priest.” 1 Subsequent rabbis refer to ben Yohai’s endorsement of pedophilia as "halakah," or binding Jewish law. 2 Has ben Yohai, child rape advocate, been disowned by modern Jews? Hardly. Today, in ben Yohai’s hometown of Meron, Israel, tens of thousands of orthodox and ultra-orthodox Jews gather annually for days and nights of singing and dancing in his memory.

References to pedophilia abound in the Talmud. They occupy considerable sections of Treatises Kethuboth and Yebamoth and are enthusiastically endorsed by the Talmud’s definitive legal work, Treatise Sanhedrin.

The Pharisees Endorsed Child Sex

The rabbis of the Talmud are notorious for their legal hairsplitting, and quibbling debates. But they share rare agreement about their right to molest three year old girls. In contrast to many hotly debated issues, hardly a hint of dissent rises against the prevailing opinion (expressed in many clear passages) that pedophilia is not only normal but scriptural as well! It’s as if the rabbis have found an exalted truth whose majesty silences debate.

Because the Talmudic authorities who sanction pedophilia are so renowned, and because pedophilia as “halakah” is so explicitly emphasized, not even the translators of the Soncino edition of the Talmud (1936) dared insert a footnote suggesting the slightest criticism. They only comment: “Marriage, of course, was then at a far earlier age than now.” 3

In fact, footnote 5 to Sanhedrin 60b rejects the right of a Talmudic rabbi to disagree with ben Yohai's endorsement of pedophilia: "How could they [the rabbis], contrary to the opinion of R. Simeon ben Yohai, which has scriptural support, forbid the marriage of the young proselyte?" 4

Out of Babylon

It was in Babylon after the exile under Nebuchadnezzar in 597 BC that Judaism's leading sages probably began to indulge in pedophilia. Babylon was the staggeringly immoral capitol of the ancient world. For 1600 years, the world’s largest population of Jews flourished within it.

As an example of their evil, Babylonian priests said a man's religious duty included regular sex with temple prostitutes. Bestiality was widely tolerated. So Babylonians hardly cared whether a rabbi married a three year old girl.

But with expulsion of the Jews in the 11th century AD, mostly to western Christian lands, Gentile tolerance of Jewish pedophilia abruptly ended.

Still, a shocking contradiction lingers: If Jews want to revere the transcendent wisdom and moral guidance of the Pharisees and their Talmud, they must accept the right of their greatest ancient sages to violate children. To this hour, no synod of Judaism has repudiated their vile practice.

Sex with a “Minor” Permitted

What exactly did these sages say?

post #4 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 09:13 AM
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The Pharisees justified child rape by explaining that a boy of nine years was not a “man” (See, "Judaism and Homosexuality: A Marriage Made in Hell") Thus they exempted him from God’s Mosaic Law: “You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination” (Lev. 18:22) One passage in the Talmud gives permission for a woman who molested her young son to marry a high priest. It concludes, “All agree that the connection of a boy aged nine years and a day is a real connection; whilst that of one less than eight years is not." 5 Because a boy under 9 is sexually immature, he can't "throw guilt" on the active offender, morally or legally. 6

A woman could molest a young boy without questions of morality even being raised: "…the intercourse of a small boy is not regarded as a sexual act." 7 The Talmud also says, "A male aged nine years and a day who cohabits with his deceased brother's wife acquires her (as wife)." 8 Clearly, the Talmud teaches that a woman is permitted to marry and have sex with a nine year old boy.

Sex at Three Years and One Day

In contrast to Simeon ben Yohai's dictum that sex with a little girl is permitted under the age of three years, the general teaching of the Talmud is that the rabbi must wait until a day after her third birthday. She could be taken in marriage simply by the act of rape.

R. Joseph said: Come and hear! A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition and if her deceased husband’s brother cohabits with her, she becomes his. (Sanh. 55b)

A girl who is three years of age and one day may be betrothed by cohabitation. . . .(Yeb. 57b)

A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition, and if her deceased husband’s brother cohabited with her she becomes his. (Sanh. 69a, 69b, also discussed in Yeb. 60b)

It was taught: R. Simeon b. Yohai stated: A proselyte who is under the age of three years and one day is permitted to marry a priest, for it is said, But all the women children that have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves, and Phineas (who was priest, the footnote says) surely was with them. (Yeb. 60b)

[The Talmud says such three year and a day old girls are] . . . fit for cohabitation. . . But all women children, that have not known man by lying with him, it must be concluded that Scripture speaks of one who is fit for cohabitation. (Footnote to Yeb. 60b)

The example of Phineas, a priest, himself marrying an underage virgin of three years is considered by the Talmud as proof that such infants are "fit for cohabitation."

The Talmud teaches that an adult woman’s molestation of a nine year old boy is "not a sexual act" and cannot "throw guilt" upon her because the little boy is not truly a "man.” 9 But they use opposite logic to sanction rape of little girls aged three years and one day: Such infants they count as “women," sexually mature and fully responsible to comply with the requirements of marriage.

The Talmud footnotes 3 and 4 to Sanhedrin 55a clearly tell us when the rabbis considered a boy and girl sexually mature and thus ready for marriage. "At nine years a male attains sexual matureness… The sexual matureness of woman is reached at the age of three."

No Rights for Child Victims

The Pharisees were hardly ignorant of the trauma felt by molested children. To complicate redress, the Talmud says a rape victim must wait until she was of age before there would be any possibility of restitution. She must prove that she lived and would live as a devoted Jewess, and she must protest the loss of her virginity on the very hour she comes of age. “As soon as she was of age one hour and did not protest she cannot protest any more.” 10

The Talmud defends these strict measures as necessary to forestall the possibility of a Gentile child bride rebelling against Judaism and spending the damages awarded to her as a heathen - an unthinkable blasphemy! But the rights of the little girl were really of no great consequence, for, "When a grown-up man has intercourse with a little girl it is nothing, for when the girl is less than this (three years and a day) it is as if one put the finger into the eye." The footnote says that as “tears come to the eye again and again, so does virginity come back to the little girl under three years.” 11

In most cases, the Talmud affirms the innocence of male and female victims of pedophilia. Defenders of the Talmud claim this proves the Talmud's amazing moral advancement and benevolence toward children; they say it contrasts favorably with "primitive" societies where the child would have been stoned along with the adult perpetrator.

Actually, the rabbis, from self-protection, were intent on proving the innocence of both parties involved in pedophilia: the child, but more importantly, the pedophile. They stripped a little boy of his right to "throw guilt" on his assailant and demanded complicity in sex from a little girl. By thus providing no significant moral or legal recourse for the child, the Talmud clearly reveals whose side it is on: the raping rabbi.

post #5 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 09:14 AM
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Pedophilia Widespread

Child rape was practiced in the highest circles of Judaism. This is illustrated from Yeb. 60b:

There was a certain town in the land of Israel the legitimacy of whose inhabitants was disputed, and Rabbi sent R. Romanos who conducted an inquiry and found in it the daughter of a proselyte who was under the age of three years and one day, and Rabbi declared her eligible to live with a priest.

The footnote says that she was “married to a priest” and the rabbi simply permitted her to live with her husband, thus upholding “halakah” as well as the dictum of Simeon ben Yohai, “A proselyte who is under the age of three years and one day is permitted to marry a priest.” 12

These child brides were expected to submit willingly to sex. Yeb. 12b confirms that under eleven years and one day a little girl is not permitted to use a contraceptive but “must carry on her marital intercourse in the usual manner.”

In Sanhedrin 76b a blessing is given to the man who marries off his children before they reach the age of puberty, with a contrasting curse on anyone who waits longer. In fact, failure to have married off one’s daughter by the time she is 12-1/2, the Talmud says, is as bad as one who “returns a lost article to a Cuthean” (Gentile) - a deed for which “the Lord will not spare him.” 13 This passage says: “… it is meritorious to marry off one’s children whilst minors.”

The mind reels at the damage to the untold numbers of girls who were sexually abused within Judaism during the heyday of pedophilia. Such child abuse, definitely practiced in the second century, continued, at least in Babylon, for another 900 years.

A Fascination with Sex

Perusing the Talmud, one is overwhelmed with the recurrent preoccupation with sex, especially by the most eminent rabbis. Dozens of illustrations could be presented to illustrate the delight of the Pharisees to discuss sex and quibble over its minutest details.

The rabbis endorsing child sex undoubtedly practiced what they preached. Yet to this hour, their words are revered. Simeon ben Yohai is honored by Orthodox Jews as one of the very greatest sages and spiritual lights the world has ever known. A member of the earliest "Tannaim," rabbis most influential in creating the Talmud, he carries more authority to observant Jews than Moses.

Today, the Talmud’s outspoken pedophiles and child-rape advocates would doubtlessly spend hard time in prison for child molestation. Yet here is what the eminent Jewish scholar, Dagobert Runes (who is fully aware of all these passages), says about such “dirty old men” and their perverted teachings:

There is no truth whatever in Christian and other strictures against the Pharisees, who represented the finest traditions of their people and of human morals. 14

Aren’t Christ’s words more appropriate?

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. (Matthew 23:27, 28.)

(Adapted from Ted Pike's book, Israel: Our Duty, Our Dilemma)

The Talmud said Jesus was, along with Balaam and Titus, one of the three greatest enemies of Judaism (Gittin 56b-57a). The New Testament confirms that the Pharisees considered Christ demon-possessed (John 8:48), a charlatan empowered by the devil (Matt. 12:24), a deceiver (Matt. 27:6), a blasphemer (Jn. 10:36), and having an unclean spirit (Mk. 3:30). The Talmud says He was a bastard, son of adulterous Mary (Sanhedrin 106b). He was hung on the eve of Passover because He was a sorcerer and apostate (Sanh. 43a). He was a fool who fell down and worshipped a brick (Sanh. 67a). He was executed by stoning, burning, decapitation, and strangling (Sanh. x.2:90a). Jews are encouraged to lecture against Christ (Sanh. 106b). Christ is in hell, wallowing in boiling hot excrement (Git. 56b-57a).

The Talmud recommends persecution of Christians. Christians are heretics (Abodah Zarah 16b), apostates (Shabbethai 116). Christians may be legally thrown into a pit to die (AZ, 26b). Christians deserve death for observing the Sabbath (even though they observe the Noahide laws) (Sanh. 58b) and studying the Old Testament (Sanh. 59a). Christianity is an unforgivable sin, seducing Jews to idolatry (AZ 17a). The testimony of a Christian is unworthy to be admitted to a Jewish court (Shulshan Aruk, Hoshen Mishpat 34,31). Jews are forbidden to return a lost article to a Christian (HM 266,2). Matthew, Luke, Nicodemus, and Thaddeus were executed as heretics ( Jewish Encyclopedia, "Jesus," page 171). Jews should rejoice, dress in white, and eat, drink, and be merry at the death of a Christian. They should hate a Christian with utmost hatred and consider him an enemy (Semahot ch. 2, p. 35).

The Zohar sanctions killing of Gentiles, including Christians. "Take the life of the Kliphoth [Gentile and Christian] and kill them, and you will please God the same as one who offers incense to Him." (Sephar or Israel 177b) "The people of the earth are idolaters, and it has been written of them, 'Let them be wiped off the face of the earth.'" (I 25, Pranaitis translation, "The Talmud Unmasked," p. 80) "When these shall be exterminated, it will be as if God had made heaven and earth on that day." (I, Bereshith, 25b) "At the moment when the Holy One, blessed be he, will exterminate all the goyim of the world.the Lord alone will appear great on that day." (Sec. Vayschlah, folio 177b, de Pauly translation) "It is certain our captivity will last until the princes of the Gentiles who worship idols are destroyed." (I, 219, Pranaitis, p. 80) "In the palaces of the fourth heaven are those who lamented over Sion and Jerusalem, and all those who destroyed idolatrous nations, and those who killed off people who worship idols" (I, 38b, 39a)

The preface to the Soncino edition of the Zohar says: "The Zohar appeals to many Jews in a way that makes them regard it as the most sacred of sacred books! For it mirrors Judaism as an intensely vital religion of the spirit. More overpoweringly than any other book or code, or even than the Bible, does it give to the Jew a conviction of an inner, unseen spiritual universe - an eternal moral order." ( p.12)

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post #6 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 09:15 AM
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post #7 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 11:30 AM
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You may not be an anti-semite, but you are an ignorant cunt.

Hey, Mel Gibson's on the phone for you...wanna take it in your office?
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post #8 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by QBNCGAR
You may not be an anti-semite, but you are an ignorant cunt.

Hey, Mel Gibson's on the phone for you...wanna take it in your office?
If you dish it out then learn to take some too and stop acting like a little boy! Mel Gibson is a hero for telling the truth, i wish he WAS on the phone!
post #9 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 11:42 AM
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The "peaceful" religion of Islam:

Koran’s ‘war verses’ at work
By Hal Lindsey
WorldNetDaily - A Free Press for a Free People

Recently on FOX News Channel’s “Hannity & Colmes” show, I mentioned that the more a Muslim becomes serious about the Koran, the more radical he becomes. I pointed out that there are approximately 109 verses in the Koran that some scholars have called “the war verses.” They are called this because they teach violence and aggression against the “infidels,” which means all people who do not accept Islam.

The Houston Chronicle reported Jan. 12 just how effectively those verses are used to radicalize Muslims:

Abu Hamza Masri, Britain’s most prominent radical Islamic cleric, preached at a London Mosque that Muslims had a “religious duty to kill” Jews and “nonbelievers,” a prosecutor told a jury here Wednesday. The trial is the first involving a high-profile imam since July’s deadly bombings on the London public transit system. Police said those attacks were carried out by young Muslim men who attended and became radicalized in British mosques.

Thank God the majority of Muslims do not become devout followers of all the Koranic verses. But with radical imams interspersed through the increasing numbers of mosques being built in Western countries, young Muslim men — particularly — become potential time bombs ready to be radicalized.

You may ask: “Just what do these ‘war verses’ in the Koran teach that has so radicalized Muslims in virtually every century from the beginning of Islam?” The following is a sample of these verses. They are quoted from a comparison of eight different officially recognized translations of the Koran, with the N.J. Dawood translation being the principle one used:

“Strike off their [infidel’s] heads. Strike off their finger-tips! … because they defied God and his Apostle [Muhammad].” (Sura 8:12-13)
“Make war on them [infidels] until idolatry shall cease and God’s religion shall reign supreme.” (Sura 2:193)
“Seize them and put them to death wherever you find them.” (Sura 4:89)
“Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you.” (Sura 9:123)
“When the sacred months [Ramadan] are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them; besiege them; and lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent [convert to Islam] and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way.” (Sura 9:5)
If a Muslim begins to take these verses literally and seriously, as all good Muslims are supposed to do — since they are taught that every verse is directly handed down from Allah, then it is easy to see how they could incite violent behavior toward “nonbelievers.”

You may think there are no radical imams in America to be concerned about. Yehudit Barsky recently reported in the Jerusalem Post these disturbing facts:

The power of the extremist Wahhabi form of Islam in the United States was created with generous Saudi financing of American Muslim communities over the past few decades. Over 80 percent of the mosques in the United States “have been radicalized by Saudi money and influence.” The people now in control of teaching religion to American Muslims are extremists.

Author Stephen Schwartz, in his book “The Two Faces of Islam,” said the same thing: “The Wahhabi sect, backed by Saudi Arabia, controls 70 to 80 percent of the mosques in the United States.” He went on to say, “These imams instruct, indoctrinate and certify the chaplains in the federal and state prison systems and in the military.” It is a fact that a disturbing number of inmates in our prisons are converted to Islam — Jose Padilla being one notable example.

I do not believe the majority of Muslims have been radicalized. But these imams of the Wahhabi sect look for the Muslims who show signs of increased devotion. These are discipled toward the “war verses.” Once radicalized, they encourage them to seek “advanced studies” in the training camps of such “devout groups” as al-Qaida.

I am increasingly concerned that a religion that has such a history of violent conquest and forced conversions at the point of the sword is being portrayed as basically a “peaceful religion that has been hijacked by a few radicals.”

As I said before, most Muslims are not radical and do not want to fight a jihad against America. But it is through no fault of what is taught in the Koran. It is just that they have not embraced all the violent verses that are contained therein … yet!
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post #10 of 25 (permalink) Old 06-14-2007, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Designo_E320
If you dish it out then learn to take some too and stop acting like a little boy! Mel Gibson is a hero for telling the truth, i wish he WAS on the phone!
Your honor, the prosecution rests.
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