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post #21 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-09-2007, 12:06 PM
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let's see, what else would happen?

Well as TK mentioned, labor wages would take a huge hit resulting in price collapse and increased export demand. People who are in the unskilled or semi-skilled labor pools in the USA right now would see their incomes plummet. People in the skilled trades would be not much better off than unskilled labor as there are many crackerjack skilled tradesmen in Mexico who'd love to have a shot at $30k/year. Your typical Longshoreman or UAW skilled laborer would probably get violent as wage competition would attack their current hourly rate.

And truckers! Whoa. Just wait for all those maniacal Mexicans driving the Dinos come flying across the border, overloaded with weight and white-crosses -- both the memorial markers and the pills. The song of the freeway will gain a new stanza and chorus.

Produce prices would plummet, though the farm owners would do a lot better. Food prices would drop. Waiters would be more polite and responsive.

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post #22 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-09-2007, 12:22 PM
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let's see, what else would happen?

Well as TK mentioned, labor wages would take a huge hit resulting in price collapse and increased export demand. People who are in the unskilled or semi-skilled labor pools in the USA right now would see their incomes plummet. People in the skilled trades would be not much better off than unskilled labor as there are many crackerjack skilled tradesmen in Mexico who'd love to have a shot at $30k/year. Your typical Longshoreman or UAW skilled laborer would probably get violent as wage competition would attack their current hourly rate.

And truckers! Whoa. Just wait for all those maniacal Mexicans driving the Dinos come flying across the border, overloaded with weight and white-crosses -- both the memorial markers and the pills. The song of the freeway will gain a new stanza and chorus.

Produce prices would plummet, though the farm owners would do a lot better. Food prices would drop. Waiters would be more polite and responsive.

B
So you feel law abiding Americans and the country as a whple would be better off. Maybe this should be put to a national vote in 08 along with the presidency?
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post #23 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-09-2007, 12:30 PM
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So you feel law abiding Americans and the country as a whple would be better off. Maybe this should be put to a national vote in 08 along with the presidency?
I believe it is speculatively interesting.

For example, would the President in office and/or party in power when an additional 40 million people became citizens gain or lose power?

Also, I don't see anywhere in the Constitution a definition of what a border is. therefore it's statutory, I assume. Statutes are far easier to modify than the constitution. No popular vote or state legislative assent or permission required.

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post #24 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-09-2007, 12:46 PM
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I believe it is speculatively interesting.

For example, would the President in office and/or party in power when an additional 40 million people became citizens gain or lose power?

Also, I don't see anywhere in the Constitution a definition of what a border is. therefore it's statutory, I assume. Statutes are far easier to modify than the constitution. No popular vote or state legislative assent or permission required.

B

I admit I did not keep up with the day to day and long terms effects from the walling comng down and West Germany swallowing up East Germany but if I remember some of the stories the life and social services for the West Germans suffered due to the East Germans drawing on the limited resources. Now multiply that by 10 or 20 and I think you would have the same effect on the US if they we ahead with the opening of borders and free US citizenship for all.......
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post #25 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-09-2007, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
What would happen if we dropped the borders and declared all Mexicans and Canadians, American citizens? For about 10 years there'd be a tsunami of peasants hitchhiking north. Canada would go nuts trying to keep people formerly known as Mexicans, out. The government of Mexico would effectively collapse in about 5 minutes but would stay in place as a sort of anachronistic state government.

Then the IRS would start scrutinizing the upper 1% of the Mexican income group. There would be a flurry of paperwork heading south and nationalistic claims of sovereignty and immunity headed north. The IRS would stay out but the news media in Mexico would go haywire with all of the accusations and revelations of corruption and favoritism. The peasants would sharpen their machetes. Viva Zapata!

TK, let's write a novel.

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You got it backward. I think the rich would want all three countries to become Mexico because that's what that government favors while keeping the poor in "their place".
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post #26 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-09-2007, 01:24 PM
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I suggest completely open borders. we need the cheap labor(a huge "Fuck You" to labor unions)
Much of the rate base from which trucker pay is calculated is a direct result of years of Teamster involvement in that industry. I don't agree with everything that the Teamsters do [nor that of many of the Unions in this country] but they have directly benefited many people including making trucking and dockworking a job that allows folks to raise a family.

Open those borders wide open and soon you will be seeing $7.00 per hour long distance truck drivers all across America. It is already going on on some indy firms [like the bozo that peeled his truck top back in the Lincoln Tunnel last week].

Are you OK with Open borders and competing with guys who will drive 48 hour weeks for under $350? [that's $17,500 for 2500 hours]

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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #27 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-09-2007, 02:09 PM
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I say we should do genetic/medical experimentation on all adult illegal immigrants.

because it will....

a) reduce the population of non tax paying illegal immigrants
b) help the medical field on advanced medicines and procedures
c) save monkeys, rats and rabbits
d) give a great form of entertainment with "experiments gone wrong" reality shows
e) stop the frustration of dealing with non English speaking employees at Jack in the Box
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post #28 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-09-2007, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by amgdriven
I say we should do genetic/medical experimentation on all adult illegal immigrants.

because it will....

a) reduce the population of non tax paying illegal immigrants
b) help the medical field on advanced medicines and procedures
c) save monkeys, rats and rabbits
d) give a great form of entertainment with "experiments gone wrong" reality shows
e) stop the frustration of dealing with non English speaking employees at Jack in the Box
I know Kamil and you ain't his brother
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post #29 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-09-2007, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
Much of the rate base from which trucker pay is calculated is a direct result of years of Teamster involvement in that industry. I don't agree with everything that the Teamsters do [nor that of many of the Unions in this country] but they have directly benefited many people including making trucking and dockworking a job that allows folks to raise a family.

Open those borders wide open and soon you will be seeing $7.00 per hour long distance truck drivers all across America. It is already going on on some indy firms [like the bozo that peeled his truck top back in the Lincoln Tunnel last week].

Are you OK with Open borders and competing with guys who will drive 48 hour weeks for under $350? [that's $17,500 for 2500 hours]
All true.

And as a firm believer in the brotherhood of man and the worldwide proletariat movement, I think that a dramatic improvement in the lives of millions of peasants is worth the short-term discomfort of the overpaid, protectionist, luddite, yankee union thugs who are merely tools of the corporate bosses. Etc.

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post #30 of 39 (permalink) Old 06-09-2007, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amgdriven
I say we should do genetic/medical experimentation on all adult illegal immigrants.

because it will....

a) reduce the population of non tax paying illegal immigrants
b) help the medical field on advanced medicines and procedures
c) save monkeys, rats and rabbits
d) give a great form of entertainment with "experiments gone wrong" reality shows
e) stop the frustration of dealing with non English speaking employees at Jack in the Box
I know Kamil.

Kamil was a friend of mine.

Mr amgdriven, you are no Kamil!

-----------------------------------------------

Actually, I'm jealous of your ironic wit. What you wrote above is in keeping with the spirit of Jonathan Swift. Great company!

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