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post #21 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-01-2007, 11:07 AM
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Sorry 300D to rain on your parade but the numbers I remember from the other article were more like and do not quote me on this but I remember 160kms per tank and a top speed of 65 KPH. I will try and find that orginal article now but I swear those were the numbers I remember

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post #22 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-01-2007, 11:09 AM
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Sorry 300D to rain on your parade but the numbers I remember from the other article were more like and do not quote me on this but I remember 160kms per tank and a top speed of 65 KMH. I will try and find that orginal article now but I swear those were the numbers I remember
You are not "raining on my parade" until you can back up claims with numbers and science. Until you do that all you are doing is repeating someone else's bullshit.

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post #23 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-01-2007, 11:09 AM
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The problem old300 is the confusion of what is a catalyst versus stored energy.
The compressed air solution is bullshit as far as energy conversion; it will be totally inefficient. On the bright side if it is centrally done where emissions can be collected it might be better for the environment in a city like Calcutta or Mumbai but like you said I doubt the $2 figure.
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post #24 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-01-2007, 11:13 AM
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Here is the original article, look who developed this baby......

India to launch air-powered car in 2008

The first car in the world propelled by compressed air is scheduled to be cruising India's city streets sometime next year.
Developed by ex-Formula One engineer Guy Negre, the Air Car will be built by Tata Motors, India's largest automaker. Tata Motors anticipates producing 6,000 Air cars by 2008.
The Air Car uses compressed air to push its engine's pistons and should be practical and reasonably priced. The CityCat model's top-end speed is 68 mph with a driving range of 125 miles.

Refueling is easy and takes just a few minutes if you live near a gas station with custom air compressor units. The cost of a fill up is approximately US$2. If a driver doesn't have access to a compressor station, they will be able to plug into the electrical grid and use the car's built-in compressor to refill the tank in about four hours.
Technically, the Air Car is not an "emissions free" vehicle because fossil fuels are burned to power the compressor. But the carbon emissions per mile still far outdoes any gasoline car on the market.
The Air Car is light-weight and made from glued-together fiberglass construction. It may never hit the streets of America because of crash test requirements. However, Nègre has signed deals to bring its design to 12 more countries, including Germany, Israel and South Africa. Tata Motors is already working on a hybrid version that would use an on-board, gasoline-powered compressor to refill the air tanks when they run low. Negre says that technology could easily squeeze a cross-country trip out of one tank of gasoline.


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post #25 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-01-2007, 01:22 PM
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India to launch air-powered car in 2008

The first car in the world propelled by compressed air is scheduled to be cruising India's city streets sometime next year.
Developed by ex-Formula One engineer Guy Negre, the Air Car will be built by Tata Motors, India's largest automaker. Tata Motors anticipates producing 6,000 Air cars by 2008.
The Air Car uses compressed air to push its engine's pistons and should be practical and reasonably priced. The CityCat model's top-end speed is 68 mph with a driving range of 125 miles.

Refueling is easy and takes just a few minutes if you live near a gas station with custom air compressor units. The cost of a fill up is approximately US$2. If a driver doesn't have access to a compressor station, they will be able to plug into the electrical grid and use the car's built-in compressor to refill the tank in about four hours.
Technically, the Air Car is not an "emissions free" vehicle because fossil fuels are burned to power the compressor. But the carbon emissions per mile still far outdoes any gasoline car on the market.
The Air Car is light-weight and made from glued-together fiberglass construction. It may never hit the streets of America because of crash test requirements. However, Nègre has signed deals to bring its design to 12 more countries, including Germany, Israel and South Africa. Tata Motors is already working on a hybrid version that would use an on-board, gasoline-powered compressor to refill the air tanks when they run low. Negre says that technology could easily squeeze a cross-country trip out of one tank of gasoline.


english.eastday.com
There are a lot of claims made here, with no attempt to back them up. I suspect energy is quite cheap in India, as like I said before, it won't be $2 worth of electricity here. No mention is made of how much pressure or volume of air is required, so that claim cannot be evaluated. Again, it should be obvious to anyone who can think that using the electricity directly to charge a battery in the same car would be more efficient. You would have either a weight advantage, a range advantage, or a power advantage over any method to convert energy, be it compressed air, hydrogen or whatever.

Adding a gasoline based compressor would be completely stupid. Just use the gasoline engine to power the wheels directly -- what possible advantage would compressing air have?

Come on people, use what God gave you and think!

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post #26 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-01-2007, 01:40 PM
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You should check out the engineer Guy Negre, he does have a prety good reputation and I doubt he would risk it to lie about this car. I guess we will all know next year if/when the car comes out.

As for electiricity in India, I do not know what cost is but I can tell you in I suspect it is actually alot more expensive per kilowatt hour there than in anywhere in the US. Here in Indonesia per kilowatt hour is on a vared rate, the more watts your house has the higher the rate.

My house has 16600 watts and just for the connection and the monthly fee without usage for the hookup is roughly IDR 600,000 each month. I house we looked a buying a few months ago had 33,000 watts wired up to it and the owner said her electricity monthly fee without any actual electricity usage was IDR 1,00,000 a month.

How much do you pay per kilowatt hour, come back to me and I will search for a copy of my electricy bill and tell you my per kilowatt hour rate.
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post #27 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-01-2007, 01:51 PM
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300D - who cares whether or not it's exothermic or even remotely efficient, as long as it's in abundant supply and is nonpolluting? This isn't a contest. We've been looking for alternatives to energy production and 'fuels' that get us out of the habit of breaking carbon atoms for a couple of decades now.

Solar panels reaching 40% efficiency are considered a milestone, and have only recently seen that level of performance in labs. Nobody bitches about how little sunlight turns into electricity. The point is that energy is being harnessed (made, if you will) without burning something that ends up creating pollution - or worse yet, CO2.

Maybe if there were solar panels that ran on vegetable oil, they'd be of interest?

I'm aboslutely amazed at the rancour that exists toward alternate energies by those who endeavor to preach their benefits. Your remarks are laden with an unnecessary level of animosity, cynicism, and hypocrisy.
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post #28 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-01-2007, 02:30 PM
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300D - who cares whether or not it's exothermic or even remotely efficient, as long as it's in abundant supply and is nonpolluting? This isn't a contest. We've been looking for alternatives to energy production and 'fuels' that get us out of the habit of breaking carbon atoms for a couple of decades now.

Solar panels reaching 40% efficiency are considered a milestone, and have only recently seen that level of performance in labs. Nobody bitches about how little sunlight turns into electricity. The point is that energy is being harnessed (made, if you will) without burning something that ends up creating pollution - or worse yet, CO2.

Maybe if there were solar panels that ran on vegetable oil, they'd be of interest?

I'm aboslutely amazed at the rancour that exists toward alternate energies by those who endeavor to preach their benefits. Your remarks are laden with an unnecessary level of animosity, cynicism, and hypocrisy.
Where do you come up with this crap? Who cares whether it's efficient? Give me a break. The only sources of energy that are abundant right now are non-renewable AND polluting. The only real options for the future are geothermal or solar-based. This includes photovoltaic, wind, tidal, and biomass. There are no sources for compressed air or hydrogen THEY ARE NOT FUEL SOURCES!!! So it matters a great deal whether these energy mediums are efficient, because renewables are not developed enough to waste. When the energy mediium is inherently inefficient, there is no reasen to build an infrastructure around it in the hopes of eventually fueling it with renewables. The only transportation energy mediums that make sense right now are biofuels and battery/electric as there is little new infrastructure or technology to develop. There is no reason to invent complicated or inefficient means to use the same energy; hydrogen, compressed air, jelly beans all have additional intrinsic losses.

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post #29 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-01-2007, 03:47 PM
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I understand your arguments....I just find them mind bogglingly myopic.
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post #30 of 43 (permalink) Old 06-01-2007, 04:05 PM
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I understand your arguments....I just find them mind bogglingly myopic.
You have yet to demonstrate any understanding. I find yours at best tangential, at worst baseless.

You think you "saw" saltwater burning in a video and you believe it? Gullible is the only word that comes to my mind in response.

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