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post #21 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-31-2007, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
I don't want to pay a finder's fee overhead for day labor. I want to hire some guy down the street or out by the road with a, "Will work for money. God Bless" cardboard sign. Or my neighbor's kid.

B
Therein lies the problem. Although I would bet your kid down the road would be easy to verify.

I think there will always be wiggle room for pickup work like you suggest. It is not a gray area but is more likely to be treated as such. Where the "employer" issues come into play would be where registered businesses who by charter file taxes and conduct business hire workers on the sly. That is where the violations take place in numbers that would make a difference.

On a side note, my next door neighbor had contractors rebuilding their driveway. Most of the workforce was Latino and undocumented. When a jackhammer hit a pipe in the old concrete and hurt two of the workers we learned much about the hiring of illegals. Besides that Walmart low low price for the bid, my neighbor also got full responsibility for all medical costs to both of the workers since the contractor had no "papers" on the workers, no workers comp, no bonding and no insurance on the workers. He did have insurance on his business's work but injuries on personal property by "non employees" is the responsibility of the homeowner. $47,000 later the two Latinos were back in Mexico, all medical treatment covered and the employer sued. However the medical expense was still the responsibility of the homeowner. Homeowners insurance tends not to like to pay for that responsibility.

NOTE, my next door neighbor's brother is a Federal Judge so it is not as if he did not have good legal representation.

McBear,
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post #22 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-31-2007, 07:54 PM
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I was fishing for the solution that FTL often proposes and with which I agree: the need for a national ID card. That could be used by employers. Don't have a card? No employ.

Lots of wingers of various sorts think of that as a tool of the antichrist or of nazis or something. I think it's the only workable solution.

B
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post #23 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-31-2007, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
I was fishing for the solution that FTL often proposes and with which I agree: the need for a national ID card. That could be used by employers. Don't have a card? No employ.

Lots of wingers of various sorts think of that as a tool of the antichrist or of nazis or something. I think it's the only workable solution.

B
And to extend on your idea maybe we should have on that card political affiliation, religion and flag specific groups with symbols appropriate to their ethnicity so we will not be fooled by their presence and potential for criminal and terrorist activities.

Oh, I forgot, all professors should be flagged as liberals and mind molesters
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post #24 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-31-2007, 07:59 PM
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Anyone and Everyone Should...

...have the right to sue their employer for any wrongdoing.
Case in point: A wealthy Long Island couple (both immigrants) had 2 foreign workers, indentured servants brought here in the US to do housekeeping chores. The couple paid for their trip here but did not pay them wages directly. Apparently, monthly payments were sent to their family member abroad. These servants were abused, beaten, tortured and underfed.
One escaped from the house and sought refuge at an area Dunkin Donuts store. The investigation and subsequent arrest of the abusers made headlines in all major New York news media.
Illegal as they were at the time they were freed, these servants deserve justice, backpay, compensation for their inhumane treatment and yes, the right to sue their oppressors.

Mi$ter Right.
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post #25 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-31-2007, 08:00 PM
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This happens a lot in the DC area with diplomats
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post #26 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-31-2007, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by drewprof
Bot: Lots of wingers of various sorts think of that as a tool of the antichrist or of nazis or something. I think it's the only workable solution.

And to extend on your idea maybe we should have on that card political affiliation, religion and flag specific groups with symbols appropriate to their ethnicity so we will not be fooled by their presence and potential for criminal and terrorist activities.


Oh, I forgot, all professors should be flagged as liberals and mind molesters
Right on cue. Folks we have a winger!
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post #27 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-31-2007, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
I was fishing for the solution that FTL often proposes and with which I agree: the need for a national ID card. That could be used by employers. Don't have a card? No employ.

Lots of wingers of various sorts think of that as a tool of the antichrist or of nazis or something. I think it's the only workable solution.

B
We have/had that with the Social Security card. It started out that you had to have one only when you turned 16 but now you get one at birth.

Then, to secure folks from Identity theft we have taken the SSN away as a National ID.

Most states also USED to require citizenship for DL/ID cards [ID for those without a DL] but that has morphed in the last 20 years to accommodate all sorts of variations on the theme.

A National ID would be A solution but, knowing how government works it would only function as a realistic filter during the first quarter of its year of inception. Afterwards all the exceptions and counterfeits and ID Thefts and bureaucracy would make it as useless as the current hodgepodge of state’s driver's licenses.

McBear,
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post #28 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-31-2007, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
We have/had that with the Social Security card. It started out that you had to have one only when you turned 16 but now you get one at birth.

Then, to secure folks from Identity theft we have taken the SSN away as a National ID.

Most states also USED to require citizenship for DL/ID cards [ID for those without a DL] but that has morphed in the last 20 years to accommodate all sorts of variations on the theme.

A National ID would be A solution but, knowing how government works it would only function as a realistic filter during the first quarter of its year of inception. Afterwards all the exceptions and counterfeits and ID Thefts and bureaucracy would make it as useless as the current hodgepodge of state’s driver's licenses.
I don't know Bear, have you seen the newest passports. Little History, before 9/11 most embassies had the authority to issue/renew a passport with the old technology, hence I was able to call ahead the day beofe, give my SSN and they ran it over night. I went down the next morning (consulate office opens at 0730 and I walked in at 0745) with my old passport getting ready to expire, gave them my application and the required fee and pics. They processed it, cut me a new one, some Embassy official signed it and I walked out 45 minutes after I arrived with a new 10 year passport, that was in 1994.

In 2004 I went down to get a new. You have to have photos that can with stand the heat when they laminate the pics one the passport (these photos on this paper only available at 2 photoshops near the embassy and only photos from those 2 shops will they accept). As well no more quick and easy issuing a long term passport. All paperwork and photos sent to DC for processing and the passport arrives back in Jakarta around 2 weeks later. I understand if you need a replacement for a lost passport they will only issue a replacement good for a year.

So in this new passport they seem to be of such high quality with the watermarks and the built in 3-D layers in the lamination that it would be a hard thing to fake. Could they not use this secure technology to make these ID cards for US citizens? Not really looking for an argument but there has to be a workable solution for the protection of every US citizen.

Last edited by Jakarta Expat; 05-31-2007 at 09:04 PM.
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post #29 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-31-2007, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
I was fishing for the solution that FTL often proposes and with which I agree: the need for a national ID card. That could be used by employers. Don't have a card? No employ.

Lots of wingers of various sorts think of that as a tool of the antichrist or of nazis or something. I think it's the only workable solution.

B
Great theory, but the forgers are probably already at work. All illegals can get forged green cards easily enough, they are for sale all over the street in cities where they congregate.

Jim
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post #30 of 40 (permalink) Old 05-31-2007, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by cascade
Great theory, but the forgers are probably already at work. All illegals can get forged green cards easily enough, they are for sale all over the street in cities where they congregate.
Quit living in the past. The Germans solved their illegal alien problem by setting up a simple, and fool proof, national ID system. Your thumb print goes on file next to your name on a computer. Each employer has a thumb print scanner. When you change jobs, you stick your thumb in the scanner, and you better be who you say you are. Tell me, exactly, how a system like that can be defeated?

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

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