At Least On This Board The "Left" Seems More Hostile.. - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #61 of 76 (permalink) Old 05-19-2007, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
Short sleazy version is a corporation gets a better tax break by closing a plant [taking all capital expenses deductions as a one time cost] ,folding a pension/employee buyout package [another onetime cost] and write-off of funds paid to unemployment insurance agencies at various states [again one time] while also taking capital transfer and startup costs associated with any move. All the while continuing production during the slipstream move.

Lexmark, as an example got $37M in tax breaks when they moved production of one printer line from Lexington to the Philippines.

It makes very bad quarters look good.
Gobbledygook and doublespeak, if you ask me...

Don't believe everything you think
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post #62 of 76 (permalink) Old 05-19-2007, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
Why don't you tell us about your half...
I think I have typed my opinions on this and other boards enough that most people know my thoughts. OR you could look up the Conservative view on the subject which is pretty much parallel to mine.

I find it very funny when my rants against trade deficits are labels "leftwing" which is just about as far from theory as is possible.

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post #63 of 76 (permalink) Old 05-19-2007, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
I think I have typed my opinions on this and other boards enough that most people know my thoughts. OR you could look up the Conservative view on the subject which is pretty much parallel to mine.

I find it very funny when my rants against trade deficits are labels "leftwing" which is just about as far from theory as is possible.
You sound exactly like a page out of the leftwing newspaper Socialist Worker. And I will bet you get most of your "ideas" from that scary piece of "journalism." See if you recognize any of these recent Socialist Worker quotes: "Huge increases in the U.S. government’s budget deficit and the U.S. economy’s trade deficit with other countries are sending tremors through the U.S. establishment. One related development has been a sharp decline in the value of the dollar compared to other major currencies."

"OVER THE last few years, the value of the U.S. dollar has fallen by more than 15 percent--and by more than 50 percent against Europe’s currency, the euro. Financial commentators expect the decline of the dollar to continue--with the nightmare scenario being a further big drop causing an international financial crisis."

"The annual U.S. trade deficit has increased more than eightfold from a two-decade low of $77 billion in 1991 to almost $650 billion by the end of 2004. That’s about 6 percent of U.S. Gross Domestic Product (GDP)--the measure of the overall size of the U.S. economy. In a poor country, when the trade deficit climbs above 5 percent of GDP, the International Monetary Fund usually steps in to insist on a “structural adjustment” program.

Meanwhile, the U.S. government has gone from a budget surplus at the end of the 1990s to a record-setting deficit of $412 billion in 2004, all in less than a decade. The most important causes have been the Bush administration’s trillion-dollar tax cut giveaways to the super-rich and massively increased military spending thanks to the “war on terror.” And there’s more red ink to come with the Bush team’s plans to privatize Social Security and push through even more tax cuts."

"The trade gap is so big now that U.S. exports of goods and services would have to grow by 50 percent to reach the level of U.S. imports."

Recognize any of those Socialist Worker ideas? You own most of them, but neglected to acknowledge where you got them. I am disappointed... I'm sure there's nothing "leftwing" about your ideas--or those of the Socialist Worker.

Don't believe everything you think

Last edited by Jayhawk; 05-19-2007 at 04:12 PM.
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post #64 of 76 (permalink) Old 05-19-2007, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear
Short sleazy version is a corporation gets a better tax break by closing a plant [taking all capital expenses deductions as a one time cost] ,folding a pension/employee buyout package [another onetime cost] and write-off of funds paid to unemployment insurance agencies at various states [again one time] while also taking capital transfer and startup costs associated with any move. All the while continuing production during the slipstream move.

Lexmark, as an example got $37M in tax breaks when they moved production of one printer line from Lexington to the Philippines.

It makes very bad quarters look good.
How about this: Do away with the taxes that make the write-off's necessary. If companies had to pay no taxes at all then they would get no benefit from a write-off.

This would increase profits and give the company the option of 1) lowering prices; 2) raising wages; 3) increasing stock dividends; 4) investing in the company; and 5) some combination of the above.

B
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post #65 of 76 (permalink) Old 05-19-2007, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
How about this: Do away with the taxes that make the write-off's necessary. If companies had to pay no taxes at all then they would get no benefit from a write-off. ...
B
Perhaps you haven't heard: Corporations don't pay taxes--we do. So your idea has even more merrit. I'm sure the Socialist Worker, mcbear will agree to this idea!

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post #66 of 76 (permalink) Old 05-19-2007, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear
To your first paragraph, you remove the tax breaks that Corporations take when they move their manufacturing jobs offshore. That is not a penalty; it is just takes away some of the primary incentives. Those would include the writeoff of the now discarded manufacturing floor; the termination packages required by states and the unemployment costs that they pay to the states to address the increased unemployment insurance costs. Again, that is not a penalty; it just takes away the incentives.

To your second paragraph, you figure out how 50 year olds who have been working factory jobs can pick up and move to "where the jobs are". The "jobs" look for young, cheap labor that turns quickly, that has minimum overhead and minimum benefits. Most state’s labor department STRONGLY suggest that those over 50 don’t go the “move to the jobs” route as there is minimal chance for long term employment for those 50 and up, retrained or not.

You might want to do some research before the flip attempt.
To paragraph 1, I would expect those same breaks would be afforded if the company moved the jobs to, say, Tennessee . . .

To paragraph 2, I stand my ground. While it is unfortunate that someone loses in a competitive market, the government has no business making rules against that competition. You want to play, go to the game.

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post #67 of 76 (permalink) Old 05-19-2007, 08:07 PM
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To paragraph 1, I would expect those same breaks would be afforded if the company moved the jobs to, say, Tennessee . . .

To paragraph 2, I stand my ground. While it is unfortunate that someone loses in a competitive market, the government has no business making rules against that competition. You want to play, go to the game.
A-men, bruddah-man, read him from da book!

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post #68 of 76 (permalink) Old 05-20-2007, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
Living in a larger metropolitan area you might not find as much of a issue but in rural America when a company, such as Jockey pulls a facility out of a town, that might be the only paying job for 50 miles around and the manufacturing supports two to three counties. There is no "just find another job" and most of the folks can't just move as there are not open jobs for folks of that age. That is where OFFSHORING differs from the slipstreaming of robots or even when a flagman was removed from the caboose - then the caboose was replaced by the "Japanese Engineer".
I beg to differ with you mcbear. When there are no jobs around for 50 miles then you do exactly what I did, you MOVE to where the jobs are, I moved from North Jersey to the Washington area where I got a better paying job. I am NOT alone.
If your feet are stuck in the local mud, I guess you can starve to death, or you can dig yourself out and do something about it. I have little pity for someone that can't figure out that when the well runs dry, you either dig/find a new one or you are going to be VERY thirsty until the rains come.
As to the "flagman in the caboose, The railroads normally carried a crew of five on a train. Engineer, Fireman, Head-end brakeman, Rear-end brakeman, and Conductor. The Caboose was the conductors "office" and some of the last built were equipped like damn motel suites with cook stoves, refrigerators, showers, bunks, and about everything else you could want in a home away from home. Their cost reflected that as well. Is there any question that the railroads wanted to get rid of them? People were lined up to buy them as camping homes out in the woods they were set up so well. When the railroads cut them, they cut TWO of the crew, the Fireman (do you really need a fireman on a diesel electric locomotive?) and the rear brakeman, 40% of the crew. What happened to those guys? They found new jobs didn't they.......
Sorry it may not be the nicest thing to happen to a family, but if a company cuts workers, it doesn't matter where the jobs go, they are just gone, and you will either find something else, you end up on a dole, or you get very hungry.
That's the way it has ALWAYS been, remember the Luddites?

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post #69 of 76 (permalink) Old 05-20-2007, 06:42 AM
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In other words

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^^^"Starvation is God's way of punishing those who have no faith in Capitalism!!"

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post #70 of 76 (permalink) Old 05-20-2007, 06:58 AM
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^^^"Starvation is God's way of punishing those who have no faith in Capitalism!!"
Not punishment at all.

One has a choice: stand still and demand that somebody else do something because life is unfair, people are meanies, and others are to blame for one's current estate OR get off your ass, take responsibility and do something about it yourself.

"Necessity is the mother of invention."

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