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post #41 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 01:53 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
I believe you are incorrect.

"Following the entry of the United States into the war in December 1941, U-boats sank shipping along the East Coast of the United States and Canada, the waters around Newfoundland, the Caribbean Sea, and the Gulf of Mexico. They were initially so successful that this became known among U-boat crews as the Second happy time. Eventually, the institution of shore blackouts and an interlocking convoy system resulted in a drop in attacks and U-boats shifted their operations back to the mid-Atlantic."


World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Shithead Jayhawk can also take a read on how the US ended up at war with the Germans.
Actually the Germans WERE working off shore before Pearl Harbor. The attacks were VERY limited, and involved only non US flagged ships. Our shipping often had massive flags painted on their sides to identify who they were.

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post #42 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bruce R.
As a professor (at least by handle) you seem to get things wrong an awful lot:
Reporting the war was a military affair back then. Check your facts and history.
That's as wrong as if you were writing about the current media. There were many press accounts about how that was Europe’s war and how we should not get involved. They couldn’t care less about what was happening in the Far East.
Once we finally got involved due to Pearl Harbor, the media woke up to the fact that there might be something to this Fascist thing, and realized that we might actually lose if they didn’t get their (the media’s) crap together. They actually did something other than slam the government at every opportunity, and although they reported casualties, they didn’t whine about each individual soldier. In fact they actually encouraged enlistment in the military, imagine that if you can !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Add to that they didn’t report everything that went wrong here in the U.S. that might help the enemy. Currently it would seem as though the New York Times is the prime intel source for Al Qaeda.
The media may very well have evolved, but NOT to my lifestyle. I will agree that we have become “spoiled and too sensitive” there can be no question about that, we have become far to self centered. The ME FIRST generation wants everything, they want it right now, and they are unwilling to work for it. If you call them on it they whine and call you names like little children, or like FoTL……….. no, wait, that’s saying the exact same thing twice isn’t it.
Back to the questions:
Would the Allies have won WWII if the news coverage was just as biased (OK, let’s just say slightly slanted) as it is today?
Could Democracy have triumphed if the press and video media covered every casualty as they do in Iraq.
Again your question is misleading because you go on the correct assumption that the media is biased. Of course it is, just tune to Fox News and then report back.
I am not a prof of history but I can assure you that the news media during WWII was vetted by the War Department. If you can provide evidence to the contrary then I will eat crow.
Here is the reality right now. All of our "official" media is biased!
You want the truth? Travel for yourself to Iraq if you believe our leader that it is safe. Go and mingle with the locals and enjoy with them their newly acquired democracy. When you come back (if you come back) then report to us your findings. Should you doubt this move then please by all means keep on watching the news being reported from the Green Zone by our "professional" media as an alternative.
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post #43 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 08:29 PM
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Yes & No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce R.
Back to the questions:
[B
Would the Allies have won WWII if the news coverage was just as biased (OK, let’s just say slightly slanted) as it is today?
Could Democracy have triumphed if the press and video media covered every casualty as they do in Iraq. [/B]
End of discussion, insults, and the spreading of misinformation.

Mi$ter Right.
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post #44 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
Jaybaugh,

Let's not go by your recollections. How about you post some written accounts that were published in the media showing Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, UAE, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Jordan, Yemen, Bahrain, Qatar and possibly Cyprus and Oman, and, even Turkey implored the United States Government to invade Iraq in 2003? I would also like to see a published roll call of the world's nations who responded to the "You are either w/us or you are against us" as I don't recall ever hearing anyone say much of anything in response. I definitely don't recall Saddam saying squat, and especially not "Up yours!"

So, once again you seem to be doing little more than spewing your talk radio fluff here and presenting it as some kind of truth when it has little more substance backing it up than an antiseptic Budweiser beer fart. Jim
If only there was an organization where countries could get together and implore each other to take action, to talk together in a setting where their security would be guaranteed and they could speak freely, an organization that brought friends and foes alike to the table, a collection of united nations. If only.

Did ya know that one can go out to the UN.ORG web site and read everything from session notes to press releases to - and this is the important one VERBATIM RECORDS that would cover any imploring or pleading or groveling or just plain asking [excepting maybe for some of those Crawford Ranch hand holding meetings].

Since the actions against Iraq to remove Saddam were to be prosecuted by the Coalition of the Willing, and not a capricious act of the United States, the UN was the only place for any comments by Saddam’s neighbors in the Middle East to be made.

And you know, I didn’t find them. The one place on Planet Earth that one would expect to see official pleadings and implorations, the one place where a nation could take a stand against a tyrant and his words be both heard and written down for all of mankind to see. And they were not there. Bummer.

Maybe they are with Rove’s Email. It could happen.

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Being smart is knowing the difference, in a sticky situation between a well delivered anecdote and a well delivered antidote - bear.
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post #45 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-28-2007, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear
If only there was an organization where countries could get together and implore each other to take action, to talk together in a setting where their security would be guaranteed and they could speak freely, an organization that brought friends and foes alike to the table, a collection of united nations. If only.
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post #46 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-29-2007, 12:56 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by drewprof
Again your question is misleading because you go on the correct assumption that the media is biased. Of course it is, just tune to Fox News and then report back.
I am not a prof of history but I can assure you that the news media during WWII was vetted by the War Department. If you can provide evidence to the contrary then I will eat crow.
Here is the reality right now. All of our "official" media is biased!
You want the truth? Travel for yourself to Iraq if you believe our leader that it is safe. Go and mingle with the locals and enjoy with them their newly acquired democracy. When you come back (if you come back) then report to us your findings. Should you doubt this move then please by all means keep on watching the news being reported from the Green Zone by our "professional" media as an alternative.
Questions cannot be misleading, they are after all only questions. Answers and statements however can be.
As to your comment about reporting the news in Iraq, how is it we never hear of the positive things that our GI's are doing, from ANYBODY ?

"Negotiating with Obama is like playing chess with a pigeon, the pigeon knocks over all the pieces, on the board and then struts around like it won the game."
Vladimir Putin

"They have gun control in Cuba. They have universal health care in Cuba. So why do they want to come here?"
Paul Harvey 8/31/94


"The only people who have quick answers don't have the responsibility of making the decisions."
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post #47 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-29-2007, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce R.
Questions cannot be misleading, they are after all only questions. Answers and statements however can be.
As to your comment about reporting the news in Iraq, how is it we never hear of the positive things that our GI's are doing, from ANYBODY ?
Let me see, do parents that sexually abuse their children buy them clothes and food? Does the fact that they buy them shit excuse their criminal behavior?
Get real Bruce, we fucked the Iraqis out of Iraq. So you want the media to concentrate on how a shipment of cement arrived to Baghdad to build a school? Oh let me guess, if half of the cement is missing because it got stolen or that the school never got finished because of stealing and incompetence that should not be reported, it's the spirit of building the school that counts, right?
The reason you hear mostly negative news is because that place has turned into hell. No one is safe and most people can't wait to flee. Let me guess Bruce, it's their fault right? It's their infighting that brought all this on them, we have nothing to do with this situation? It was way worse under Saddam, right? We have control over Iraq, it's government and of course the oil to help pay for "reconstruction" as planned, right?
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post #48 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-29-2007, 01:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce R.
Questions cannot be misleading, they are after all only questions. Answers and statements however can be.
As to your comment about reporting the news in Iraq, how is it we never hear of the positive things that our GI's are doing, from ANYBODY ?
Of course questions can be misleading! "When did you stop beating your wife?" is very clear example. Anytime a question is asked about a bit of known bum dope and treats it like it was credible, the question is misleading.

I can't think of a good reason, other than profit which isn't a "good" reason, just a realistic one given the society we live in, for why reporting on the good things our GI's are doing never gets reported. Bad news, or sex, sells newspapers, etc. Good deeds don't. You could ask the same question about any city or town in the news because of a murder or rape or sex scandal. Why don't we hear about the good deeds being done in those places? Jim
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post #49 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-29-2007, 02:52 PM
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Hey Bruce, yu want good news? Check out Iraq for Sale
For some people this war has been good news and they hope to see it stay in place, why ruin a good thing huh?

Here is more, caviar, lavish food and maids, yep buddy! While our soldiers suffer in shitty tents. Wow, at the end of this video Senator Jeff Sessions (R of course) says: The Senate should spend a little less time advertising allegations of wrongdoing and spend more time about what is going right. Now I understand where you are coming from Bruce, I guess we are not listening to the voice of reason from this senator.

Last edited by DP; 04-29-2007 at 03:12 PM.
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post #50 of 83 (permalink) Old 04-29-2007, 03:25 PM
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Our national history of the last 100 years dictates that the American populace does not like extended wars for indirect threatening causes. They have labled this war as petty as Vietnam. Trying to blame the media is naive and dangerous.
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