The American People will finally be heard:Senate, House vote to end the war in Iraq - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
A short victory for democracy. Soon, a President with the an approval rating second only to Nixon, will veto it against the wishes of the people of this country. A small minority of GOP fascists will then be responsible for defying the people, sending our young men and women to their deaths in a war only they want. It will now become time for protests in the streets.

This is the end of the current crop of fascists who tried to steal this country and hijack our military as if their election was a corporate takeover. They now have lost all legitimacy, defying the very principles of democracy itself, but this time, not in secret, not hidden behind wiretaps, not hidden behind yellow ribbon waving fools.

Senate OKs bill with Iraq deadline - Politics - MSNBC.com
According the constitution that I read one time, the President can veto a bill. Are you suggesting that the constitutional authority vested in the Presidency is thwarting the will of the people?

B
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post #12 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 04:43 PM
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Ahh Im not so sure the police are equally divided on that. All the street officers I know would like to see it happen(concealed carry), but its the upper brass that have political motivations that tend to abstain from the subject and look towards their boss for a proper response.
Well, my source was reading the online debate about it among cops at the forum at Police & Law Enforcement - Officer.com Police News, Forums, Links and More for Police Officers, Law Enforcement, Corrections, Sheriffs and More

It was pretty surprising; I'd be inclined to give their opinion more weight as officers of law enforcent than ordinary people on the street, but they are sharply actually divided on it.

In my ignorance I thought that they were all against private citizens carrying concealed because so many are untrained, emotional, bystanders could get shot, hard for police to identify them, and so on, but the other side of the coin is "the police can't be everywhere all the time", "who would pay for the extra officers" etc.

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post #13 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
According the constitution that I read one time, the President can veto a bill. Are you suggesting that the constitutional authority vested in the Presidency is thwarting the will of the people?

B
Seems pretty obvious to me. The majority of US citizens want the war to end, and Bush will veto the spending bill to fund it because he doesn't like the leash it puts him on. So, that is what Bush is trying to do, thwart the will of the people. No one said it wasn't constitutional, just petty.

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post #14 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst
According the constitution that I read one time, the President can veto a bill. Are you suggesting that the constitutional authority vested in the Presidency is thwarting the will of the people?

B
I'm sure he's not, he knows the President can of course veto ANYTHING that comes across his desk, if he wants....

But then again, if you look at the NUMBERS at this point in time, it's pretty clear by any reasonable measurement, the Veto would probably be out of step with the sentiment of the public at large. The majority of the citizenry are in favor of abortion, for instance, but the President could still veto any abortion bill if he wants.

The checks and balances provide that the Veto can be overridden if the votes in Congress exist to do it.

Jim
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post #15 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 04:52 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Botnst
According the constitution that I read one time, the President can veto a bill. Are you suggesting that the constitutional authority vested in the Presidency is thwarting the will of the people?

B
It is fine with me if he does, and he has every right to do so. My point is the President will now be on record as being against the will of the people as expressed in the Congressional elections in 2006, and in any poll you care to take.

But all in all I find your question rather stupid. Of course he is. What is your point? The president thwarts the will of the people at his own peril, he becomes dictator not president. I relish the prospect. His party will go down in flames because of him as they become the party of the dictator. As the old saying goes, in a democracy, the people are jealous of their power. The Republican Party will learn that in spades.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

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post #16 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-26-2007, 10:43 PM
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The only poll that counts is during an election.

There are only two constitutional offices that are subject to the vote of every citizen of the USA.

B
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post #17 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 05:18 AM Thread Starter
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We had an election, and you are damn fucking right it's going to count.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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post #18 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
We had an election, and you are damn fucking right it's going to count.
Sure the recent election counts. But it is not the only election that counts, is it?

B

PS Speaking of popularity polls, how does the Congress compare with the Presidency?
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post #19 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 08:31 AM
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Sure the recent election counts. But it is not the only election that counts, is it?

B

PS Speaking of popularity polls, how does the Congress compare with the Presidency?
Quite favorably. Congress is over 50%, Bush is at 28%.

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post #20 of 29 (permalink) Old 04-27-2007, 08:39 AM Thread Starter
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Botnst needs to start reading more current news. Congress' attempt to end the war in Iraq is in step with what people want, and their ratings are up. Like I said, as far as I am concerned, it is ok with me if the President vetos and GOP Congress obstructs. Iraq is headed no where. It is a simple war for the insurgency, all they have to do is set off lots of car bombs and suicide attacks, for as long as it takes. As long as the infidel is in the Dar-al-Salaam, they will have no shortage of volunteers. The Irish went from 1908 until 2005. I would think the Baathists, who fought from 1920 until 1968 or so, will hang on until the next election, don't you? At this point, it is obvious to me that the fascist wing of the GOP is more of a threat to this nation than Bin Laden ever was. As long as Bush and the GOP are doing the things that insure their utter destruction at the polls in 2008, I am perfectly happy. Veto away.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address
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