Surprise Surprise...... 2008 Democrats Propose a Ceiling on Bush Tax Cuts - Page 2 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #11 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-21-2007, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear
Understand that I am all for tax cuts. I believe that everyone should have to pay as little as is necessary in taxes to run a fair government.

What I have opposed with this past tax cut is that Bush gave a percentage of people a tax cut, not everyone but some BUT at the same time ran up record deficits. To me that is just piss poor money management. It would be as if you went to your atm every day with your credit card and withdrew $500 [your "tax cut"] yet ignored that you were running up a large credit bill directly associated with your tax cut.

If the tax cut had come without the associated deficit spending I would be fully onboard because the arguments for a tax cut are correct [spurs growth, CAN raise revenue]. It's just that the butcher's bill is due and will need to be paid for the next THREE DECADES to accomodate that little tax cut that only helped some of the people.
I agree with the spending thing. That will be GW's legacy with me, had the chance and the congress to really rein in government spending and failed to do so. Part of it is a war that shoulda been won 2 years ago, but other progress could have been made.

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post #12 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-21-2007, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbear
Understand that I am all for tax cuts. I believe that everyone should have to pay as little as is necessary in taxes to run a fair government.

What I have opposed with this past tax cut is that Bush gave a percentage of people a tax cut, not everyone but some BUT at the same time ran up record deficits. To me that is just piss poor money management. It would be as if you went to your atm every day with your credit card and withdrew $500 [your "tax cut"] yet ignored that you were running up a large credit bill directly associated with your tax cut.

If the tax cut had come without the associated deficit spending I would be fully onboard because the arguments for a tax cut are correct [spurs growth, CAN raise revenue]. It's just that the butcher's bill is due and will need to be paid for the next THREE DECADES to accomodate that little tax cut that only helped some of the people.
You hit the nail on the head when you say tax cuts + irresponsible spending = huge deficits. What really gets missed in this equation is that tax cuts actually generate more revenue for the government, and in turn, they spend it like drunken sailors. It is interesting to note that while you mention record deficits as a result of tax cuts without spending cuts, liberals seem to focus more on tax cuts being the problem instead of run away spending, i.e., their wantoness to raise taxes instead of reining in spending. Where is their proposal to leave the tax cuts in place and cut spending instead?? I'll tell you where it is: NOWHERE! They have no intention to change the way money is spent in Washington, so they need a tax increase to give a sudden revenue boost to continue to spend like they do now. There is one thing that is certain besides death and taxes: That is it doesn't matter whether they have a (D) or an (R) after their name, they're both still good at spending your money they don't have.

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post #13 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-21-2007, 10:02 PM
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The Fed tax code is over 65,000 pages long! Just do away with the whole thing and go to a national sales tax.

Americans For Fair Taxation: FairTax.org
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post #14 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-22-2007, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bgoin
The Fed tax code is over 65,000 pages long! Just do away with the whole thing and go to a national sales tax.

Americans For Fair Taxation: FairTax.org
Yep.

Rich people spend more, rich people pay more.
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post #15 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-22-2007, 07:34 AM
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Sales taxes are a great idea, as long as everyone making under 75k a year are exempt.

The truth is this: the rich benefit the most from our system of laws, our economic system and our political system. They have the greatest access to the courts, and the greatest influence on the Congress. Corporate titans are nothing more than modern version of medievel dukes and lords, with virtual feudal rights within their corporations, corporations which we allow to be non-democratic in nature for their benefit, certainly not for the benefit of it's workers. They should be required to pay for these privileges at a much higher rate than other citizens, since they reap the most benefits from the system. Afterall, the average CEO makes 1,000 times what the average smuck does. Why the bitch over them paying a few points more in taxes?
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post #16 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-22-2007, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Sales taxes are a great idea, as long as everyone making under 75k a year are exempt.

The truth is this: the rich benefit the most from our system of laws, our economic system and our political system. They have the greatest access to the courts, and the greatest influence on the Congress. Corporate titans are nothing more than modern version of medievel dukes and lords, with virtual feudal rights within their corporations, corporations which we allow to be non-democratic in nature for their benefit, certainly not for the benefit of it's workers. They should be required to pay for these privileges at a much higher rate than other citizens, since they reap the most benefits from the system. Afterall, the average CEO makes 1,000 times what the average smuck does. Why the bitch over them paying a few points more in taxes?
Golly, being rich has benefits? I wish I'd know that.

$75K isn't high enough as our combined income exceeds that.

Just kidding. ha-ha.

Instead of requiring income reporting (which gives us our current mess), just give every citizen $2k tax-free dollars each month to spend on basic like food, clothing and shelter. This would reward people who are frugal. Also, any job they get would bring in money over the $24K. So get a minimum wage job and bring in $40K/year.

An individual who cannot survive on $24K/year is incompetent. But what about children? Oh, do we taxpayers want to reward large, single-head of household families who do not work?

B
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post #17 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-22-2007, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Sales taxes are a great idea, as long as everyone making under 75k a year are exempt.

The truth is this: the rich benefit the most from our system of laws, our economic system and our political system. They have the greatest access to the courts, and the greatest influence on the Congress. Corporate titans are nothing more than modern version of medievel dukes and lords, with virtual feudal rights within their corporations, corporations which we allow to be non-democratic in nature for their benefit, certainly not for the benefit of it's workers. They should be required to pay for these privileges at a much higher rate than other citizens, since they reap the most benefits from the system. Afterall, the average CEO makes 1,000 times what the average smuck does. Why the bitch over them paying a few points more in taxes?
Your socialistic jealousy is showing. And, they're paying a few points more in taxes, and nobody bitched about it. What was bitched about was the assertion that the tax reduction benefited the 1% more than the 80%, which, ultimately, has to be true since that 1% paid twice as much tax as that 80% did. This liberal mantra is the worst kind of politics, try to get a clash of classes started and make sure you appeal to the majority, make them feel deserving of somebody else's money. There's only one kind of government that redistributes wealth, and it's not supposed to be ours.

90% of the people favor a tax increase on the other 10% provided they get stuff they didn't earn from it.

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post #18 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-22-2007, 10:16 AM
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*OLD VERSION*:

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building
his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and
plays the summer away.

The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.

MORAL OF THE STORY: Be responsible for yourself!


*MODERN VERSION:*

The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building
his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and
plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and
demands to know why the ant should be warm and well fed while others
are cold and starving.

CBS, NBC, PBS, CNN, and ABC show up to provide pictures
of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant
in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.

America is stunned by the sharp contrast.

How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor
grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?

Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper, and everybody
cries when they sing, "It's Not Easy Being Green."

Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house
where the news stations film the group singing, "We shall overcome. "
Jesse then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the
grasshopper's sake.

Nancy Pelosi & John Kerry exclaim in an interview with Larry King
that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and
both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his
fair share.

Finally, the EEOC drafts the Economic Equity and Anti-Grasshopper Act
retroactive to the beginning of the summer. The ant is fined for
failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having
nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated
by the government.

Hillary gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper in a
defamation suit against the ant, and the case is tried before a panel
of federal judges that Bill Clinton appointed from a list of single-
parent welfare recipients..

The ant loses the case.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits
of the ant's food while the government house he is in, which just
happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around him because he
doesn't maintain it.

The ant has disappeared in the snow.

The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident and the
house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who
terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.

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post #19 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-22-2007, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst
Golly, being rich has benefits? I wish I'd know that.

$75K isn't high enough as our combined income exceeds that.

Just kidding. ha-ha.

Instead of requiring income reporting (which gives us our current mess), just give every citizen $2k tax-free dollars each month to spend on basic like food, clothing and shelter. This would reward people who are frugal. Also, any job they get would bring in money over the $24K. So get a minimum wage job and bring in $40K/year.

An individual who cannot survive on $24K/year is incompetent. But what about children? Oh, do we taxpayers want to reward large, single-head of household families who do not work?

B
What is the FairTax plan?

The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including a progressive national retail sales tax, a prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level, dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality, and, through companion legislation, the repeal of the 16th Amendment.

The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 1025) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities.

The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system.

The FairTax:
* Abolishes the IRS
* Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
* Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding
* Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy
* Allows American products to compete fairly
* Reimburses the tax on purchases of basic necessities
* Enables retirees to keep their entire pension
* Enables workers to keep their entire paycheck

Americans For Fair Taxation: Frequently Asked Questions

How does the FairTax protect low-income and lower-middle-income families and individuals?

Under the FairTax plan, poor people pay no net FairTax at all up to the poverty level! Every household receives a rebate that is equal to the FairTax paid on essential goods and services, and wage earners are no longer subject to the most regressive and burdensome tax of all, the payroll tax. Those spending at twice the poverty level pay a tax of only 11.5 percent a rate much lower than the income and payroll tax burden they bear today.

Under the federal income tax, slow economic growth and recessions have a disproportionately adverse impact on lower-income families. Breadwinners in these families are more likely to lose their jobs, are less likely to have the resources to weather bad economic times, and are more in need of the initial employment opportunities that a dynamic, growing economy provides. Retaining the present tax system makes economic progress needlessly slow, thus harming low-income people the most.
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post #20 of 32 (permalink) Old 04-22-2007, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edfreeman
Your socialistic jealousy is showing. And, they're paying a few points more in taxes, and nobody bitched about it. What was bitched about was the assertion that the tax reduction benefited the 1% more than the 80%, which, ultimately, has to be true since that 1% paid twice as much tax as that 80% did. This liberal mantra is the worst kind of politics, try to get a clash of classes started and make sure you appeal to the majority, make them feel deserving of somebody else's money. There's only one kind of government that redistributes wealth, and it's not supposed to be ours.

90% of the people favor a tax increase on the other 10% provided they get stuff they didn't earn from it.
Jealous? I am easily in the tax brackets that would be mosted affected. Unlike you, I have what is called a conscience. Your constant whining about the terrible price people pay for being rich is a fucking disgrace. There is nothing "socialist" about wanting a government that pays its bills. The fact the US government has run up three trillion in deficits in order to essentially transfer money borrowed from our children to the people in this country who need it the least is obscene, grotesquely unjust and truly emblematic of all fucking Republican spendthrift bastards.

Recall that earlier generations faced down fascism and communism not just with missiles and tanks, but with sturdy alliances and enduring convictions. They understood that our power alone cannot protect us, nor does it entitle us to do as we please. Instead, they knew that our power grows through its prudent use; our security emanates from the justness of our cause, the force of our example, the tempering qualities of humility and restraint.

-President Barack Obama, 1st Inaugural address

Last edited by FeelTheLove; 04-22-2007 at 01:47 PM.
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