Harry Reid, Loser - Page 7 - Mercedes-Benz Forum

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post #61 of 167 (permalink) Old 04-20-2007, 06:09 PM
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Makes you wonder if he actually does not understand what's going on or he purposefully would want to see our country go down the tubes.
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post #62 of 167 (permalink) Old 04-20-2007, 06:45 PM
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I have concluded that Jayhawk and Bush should be tried as unpatriotic, knowingly twisting the truths for personal gains, genocide, and willfully putting American citizens in harm's way. Hence, I sentence you both to die by firing squad.

Bye bye, birdie.
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post #63 of 167 (permalink) Old 04-20-2007, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
Well, if we have indeed lost the war on terror, and leave Iraq as is, you might as well just open your doors and welcome the death and destruction that will surly follow. If the Islam-o-fascists have defeated us there it will not be long before they defeat us here--I abso-fucking-lutly grantee it! Just bend over and spread your cheeks, and try to enjoy what they do to you. Defeat is not an option! IMO
The idea "they will defeat us here" is absurd.

Tell us what "winning" this war looks like, Jaykock. Define winning. George Bush has defined winning as "a united democratic Iraq able to provide its own security". Let me define losing: realizing that this was an utterly stupid goal. As I have repeatedly said, those who predicted this outcome before this invasion even started were utterly right, while those of you who forced us into this madness were utterly wrong. Why should anyone believe a fucking word you say at this point?
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post #64 of 167 (permalink) Old 04-20-2007, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by GermanStar
I disagree. That may be true of folks like you and me, who don't really matter, but no one understood the dynamics of the region better than Cheney. He was Bush I's Defense Secretary, for goodness sake, and Bush I certainly understood the consequences of invasion. There was never a chance for victory in Iraq. This was done with intent and with a full understanding of the consequences. The real question is "why"?
Because they were conned. They were conned by Ahmed Chalibi into believing he could deliver a stable Iraq under a Western-friendly dictatorship to us, so we could pump their oil. Chalibi crawled up all their asses, Wolfowitz, Rumsfled, they all bought his bogus crap. Because they wanted to believe.
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post #65 of 167 (permalink) Old 04-20-2007, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Because they were conned.

True.


Quote:
They were conned by Ahmed Chalibi into believing he could deliver a stable Iraq under a Western-friendly dictatorship to us, so we could pump their oil.

True.


Quote:
Chalibi crawled up all their asses, Wolfowitz, Rumsfled, they all bought his bogus crap. Because they wanted to believe.


False.



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post #66 of 167 (permalink) Old 04-20-2007, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cmitch
I still maintain they thought this was going to be much easier than it has played out to be. My sister used to be married to one of those lunatics. His stories of their beliefs and thoughts about anything used to run chills up my spine. He loved 'uncle' Arafat and had a picture of that terrorist hanging in their living room. He died of a diptheric heart at 28 and his family always thought we offed him. He always threatened to kill my sister if she ever cheated on him but yet, he played around on her. I guess I do have a deeper understanding of radical Islam than the average guy and it just makes me wonder, by what I'm seeing, if there were any thought, whatsoever, about what any of what these radicals believe or what they'll resort to.
I have known Iraqis all my life. They are not all radicals, in fact Iraq was at one time the most educated nation in the Middle East. They were not into Islamic Fundamentalism, at least the urban city dwellers were not, they were leftists. Arafat was an old Stalinist, so your friend is typical. The vast majority of Iraqi urban dwellers, the majority of the country, wanted to remove Islam from governmental affairs, as Turkey had done, and in the early days they saw Saddam as their Attaturk, the guy who wring out Islam and establish a secular state. The one thing we fooled ourselves on was misunderstanding the fact the Saddam, even after two decades of defeat, was still a popular leader in Iraq. He was popular among Christians, Sunnis, and secular Shiites, and even Kurds. They cooperated with his police state because they hated the Islamists. Like Germanstar points out, this was well known among people informed of Middle Eastern affairs. Cheney most certainly knew it. Bush most certainly did. Can't you see how these people took you conservatives for total suckers, whipping all of you into a frenzy by conflagerating Saddam with the 9-11 terrorists? Not only did he have nothing to do with it, in the convoluted world of Arab politics, he was on our side in the so-called "war on terror". He took all of you for rubes, he killed your fucking kids and stole your tax money to prosecute a war that all of us who knew anything about Iraq knew had NOTHING TO DO WITH 9-11. The real object was to remove a socialist movement from the Arab world and a socialist government from Iraq, because the oil companies know that these type of Arab economies form state monopolies to do the work normally contracted out to American and British oil services firms, and that drilling franchises would also be nationalized. That means the oil services companies get nothing (the largest is of course Halliburton) while the only thing the oil producers get is to buy the crude. The most profitable tier in the distribution of oil is the first tier - where it comes out of the ground, once construction costs have been recovered, for free. Bush lied through his teeth every step of the way.

Last edited by FeelTheLove; 04-20-2007 at 09:43 PM.
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post #67 of 167 (permalink) Old 04-20-2007, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Jayhawk
Well you obviously missed your calling, General elau. Unfortunately, you appear not to have any idea about the subject at hand. Our losses in Vietnam were in excess of 50,000 soldiers, and "what we used on the Russians" was a cold war that lasted for over a generation! No IED's of which I am aware...
The analogy with Viet Nam is much closer than the right tries to believe. Look at the number of troops committed to conflict during the first 48 months of conflict in both wars and corresponding casualties. [VERY similar]. Yes we lost 50,000 in Viet Nam. Most of those loses were in years 5-8 [that would be 2007-2010 in projection]

Both wars have politicians justifying their commitments of troops with the Grand Plan of Saving a Country from Tyranny and bolstering the troops with platitudes of “If you don’t fight them over there you will have to fight them at home!” Domino v War on Terror. Sound familiar.

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post #68 of 167 (permalink) Old 04-20-2007, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Zeitgeist
Wow, they really like Ike!
Ike was a real President.

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post #69 of 167 (permalink) Old 04-20-2007, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by FeelTheLove
Because they were conned. They were conned by Ahmed Chalibi into believing he could deliver a stable Iraq under a Western-friendly dictatorship to us, so we could pump their oil. Chalibi crawled up all their asses, Wolfowitz, Rumsfled, they all bought his bogus crap. Because they wanted to believe.
I don't believe they were conned. Chalibi was doing the job he was instructed to do.

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post #70 of 167 (permalink) Old 04-21-2007, 08:44 AM
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I wish I could believe that. I personally think the entire thing was directed by Iranian Intelligence. They played the top level of the US government for rubes, feeding them phony information, documents and "defectors", with a goal of destroying their most dangerous enemy, Saddam, knowing full well it would result in the fracturing of Iraq. They knew full well the absolutely inevitable result no matter what we do, would be an Iraqi Persian puppet state, which is essentially what Iraq is today, which would in turn become its proxy state to carry the idealogy of Islamic Republicanism to the Arab world. They are moving into Phase II now, which is to get us out of Iraq, another inevitability anyone could foresee, so they can claim the Iraqi rump state. They leave us little options. Iraq will never be stable unless they allow it to be. We can stay and bleed slowly, leave, or invade Iran, an option I think they would welcome so they can continue their new paradigm of war against us in Iran itself.

Last edited by FeelTheLove; 04-21-2007 at 08:50 AM.
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