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post #71 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-09-2007, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by JimSmith
No, what you said is exactly as I characterized it. A childish whine with an original and tellingly immature twist - Bush is ok because had Kerry been elected you are sure he would have done something equally unethical. The recess appointment as a concept is not intended to be used as Bush just did it - which is to circumvent the authority of Congress. Please cite the examples where Clinton had hearings, that went badly, then Congress went on recess and he invoked the recess appointment authority to overcome the very apparent likelihood of an appointment about to be turned down by Congress. And then, explain why this set of circumstances would be expected of Kerry. Give some reason or rationale. Not just the childish whine about why you should be allowed to do something clearly unethical because someone else might do it they were given the opportunity. Jim
Actually, you're wrong - again. the Constitution specifically authorizes the recess appointment, and Bush has used it - so far - exactly 27 more times than Clinton. See here:Recess appointment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seeing as how most presidents (note I cannot prove that all have) have used recess appointments, how is Bush's use of them "circumventing Congress" or "unethical?"
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post #72 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-09-2007, 10:35 AM
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Actually, you're wrong - again. the Constitution specifically authorizes the recess appointment, and Bush has used it - so far - exactly 27 more times than Clinton. See here:Recess appointment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Seeing as how most presidents (note I cannot prove that all have) have used recess appointments, how is Bush's use of them "circumventing Congress" or "unethical?"
Did you miss the point about purposely circumventing Senate confirmation?

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post #73 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-09-2007, 10:35 AM
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Smearing people is not behavior that should lend itself toward earning employment as an ambassador -- on any level. It should weigh just as much as "convicted child-molester" on a job application for baby sitter. Not to mention the fact that the act of pushing through recess appointments for the sole purpose of circumventing the approval process is highly unethical.
Your first statement is ridiculous. That the "swift boaters" "smeared" John Kerry is subjective. Bush is being smeared everyday, on this website and in Congress, yet John Kerry still serves. Your second statement that recess appointments is unethical is simply wrong. The U.S. Constitution grants the power to the president and using it is not unethical.
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post #74 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-09-2007, 10:37 AM
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Did you miss the point about purposely circumventing Senate confirmation?
No. That's called politics and the separation of powers. Do you object to the Congress purposefully circumventing president Bush in his request for supplemental funding for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
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post #75 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-09-2007, 10:48 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dorfman24
Your first statement is ridiculous. That the "swift boaters" "smeared" John Kerry is subjective. Bush is being smeared everyday, on this website and in Congress, yet John Kerry still serves. Your second statement that recess appointments is unethical is simply wrong. The U.S. Constitution grants the power to the president and using it is not unethical.
Nice to see that you find swift-boating to be "diplomatic" in nature. Do you understand what a diplomat is? Do you understand what diplomacy is? Look the words up in a dictionary, then get back to me on how swift-boating serves as good solid experience on one's resume in regard to employment as an ambassador/diplomat.

I did not say that recess appointments are necessarily unethical. Try this -- before responding to my posts, please read all the words. If that is too daunting a task, please don't bother to respond.

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post #76 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-09-2007, 10:52 AM
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No. That's called politics and the separation of powers. Do you object to the Congress purposefully circumventing president Bush in his request for supplemental funding for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan?
No it's not. The spirit of the process is to balance the power by using Senate confirmation to validate the appointment. Recess appointments are supposed to be used in an emergency when the Senate is not available.

WTF are you rambling about re: war funding? How is congress circumventing Bush's request for "supplemental funding"? They are playing their role perfectly, stipulating what for and how the funds are to be used. Congress is FINALLY representing the electorate.

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post #77 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-09-2007, 10:55 AM
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Nice to see that you find swift-boating to be "diplomatic" in nature. Do you understand what a diplomat is? Do you understand what diplomacy is? Look the words up in a dictionary, then get back to me on how swift-boating serves as good solid experience on one's resume in regard to employment as an ambassador/diplomat.

I did not say that recess appointments are necessarily unethical. Try this -- before responding to my posts, please read all the words. If that is too daunting a task, please don't bother to respond.
No, you said that Bush's recess appointment was "highly unethical." What did I miss?

And being involved in domestic, partisan politics (like, um, all secretaries of state) does not disqualify one from serving as an ambassador. My point was, German Star, that your opinion of his activities as "smearing" is subjective. And even if one accepts your definition of "smearing" it does not disqualify someone from serving as an ambassador.
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post #78 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-09-2007, 10:59 AM
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No it's not. The spirit of the process is to balance the power by using Senate confirmation to validate the appointment. Recess appointments are supposed to be used in an emergency when the Senate is not available.

WTF are you rambling about re: war funding? How is congress circumventing Bush's request for "supplemental funding"? They are playing their role perfectly, stipulating what for and how the funds are to be used. Congress is FINALLY representing the electorate.
Your first point is subject to debate. Even the New York Times praised Bill Clinton for using the recess appointment to circumvent Congress on several occasions.

My point is that you seem to only favor separation of powers when it is at Bush's expense.
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post #79 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-09-2007, 11:04 AM Thread Starter
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If you believe that smearing represents diplomacy at its finest, that is your failing, sir, not mine. I imagine you also took great pride in the brown baby whisper campaign during the 2000 primary, initiated by another great diplomat, Karl Rove.

Do you believe that this particular recess appointment was put through as an emergency measure by Mr. Bush, who believed with all his heart that the Senate would approve his choice, had it been in session? It's a simple yes or no question. 'Yes' means he did the right thing for the right reason. 'No' means something else...

Right and wrong are not abstract concepts

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post #80 of 106 (permalink) Old 04-09-2007, 11:09 AM
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If you believe that smearing represents diplomacy at its finest, that is your failing, sir, not mine. I imagine you also took great pride in the brown baby whisper campaign during the 2000 primary, initiated by another great diplomat, Karl Rove.

Do you believe that this particular recess appointment was put through as an emergency measure by Mr. Bush, who believed with all his heart that the Senate would approve his choice, had it been in session? It's a simple yes or no question. 'Yes' means he did the right thing for the right reason. 'No' means something else...

Right and wrong are not abstract concepts
Come on, German Star. You know full well that I did not write - nor am I arguing - that "smearing is diplomacy at its finest." As you asked me to do - "read my words."

I am defending the right of the president of the United States to appoint who he wants to offices that he has the power to appoint. I don't think the founding fathers expected Congress to block presidential appointments because a senator from Massachusetts was offended either. In my opinion Congress has, in recent years under both parties, abused its power to ratify appointments as much as the president (both Clinton and Bush) may have abused his power to push them through.
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