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post #11 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 11:26 AM
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What do you think people thought of Carter when he brokered Israel and Egypt's peace? Do you think that there were people back then that said the Egyptians were not serious and that this was all theatrics?
One thing I think we can conclude is that the Camp David Accords with Sadat and Begin caused some of his own Egyptian people to assasinate Anwar.

I think Carter had a good idea, it just didn't work because President Sadat didn't have the blessings of his Arab neighbors.

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post #12 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 11:34 AM
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So if it is not worth pursuing what do you suggest? Isolation? Do you think isolating them will make them more malleable, break them down and have them wanting to talks to us while on their knees? Do you suppose Hamas and Hezbollah will just implode through this "isolation"? Somehow we will prevail with no reason, no reach and just hope that it will be all-good on its own, huh?

What do you think people thought of Carter when he brokered Israel and Egypt's peace? Do you think that there were people back then that said the Egyptians were not serious and that this was all theatrics?

Does the White House have a better plan? Hell, does it even have a plan for peace in that region? I think not, do you think I am wrong?
I don't think anyone has a "plan for peace" in the region. You can't have peace with an entity (Hamas, Syria) that does not recognize the right of your ally (in this case, Isreal) to exist.

Heck, the Saudis have $1 billion socked away in escrow that they have announced they would immediately wire to Hamas and the Palestinians if they would just accept Israel's right to exist and go to the negotiating table in good fraith.
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post #13 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Musikmann
One thing I think we can conclude is that the Camp David Accords with Sadat and Begin caused some of his own Egyptian people to assasinate Anwar.

I think Carter had a good idea, it just didn't work because President Sadat didn't have the blessings of his Arab neighbors.
Correct. Carter's effort was noble, but in the end it proved what I believe is the fundamental problem in the Middle East - the powers that be survive politically by demonizing Israel. To accually make a lasting peace with Israel removes from them their boogeyman.
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post #14 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 11:36 AM
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For now, ignore them and bring our attention to bear on Iran in that regard. Carter was an effing moron, who would probably have gone down in history as our worst post-WWII POTUS, were it not for GW Bush. The power in the ME is Iran, not Syria, and simultaneously negotiating with both would be almost as stupid as invading Iraq, while already engaging Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan. As it is, either country is likely to come at us sideways. Cooperating with each other to catch us in the middle at the table would be a dream come true for them, and utterly unproductive for us. One thing at a time, my friend.... Had the Bush administration adhered to that simple wisdom, we wouldn't be in the ridiculous mess we're in today.
I agree that the power [and primary problem] in the area is Iran but I believe that you need to have everyone talking. Even a gentle nudge from an unlikely source might turn out to be the key to a solution. Often if you get the minor players involved they feel the need to make a name for themselves and work harder at a solution than the major players, all who have too much ego tied to the end result.

As LBJ once said: "It’s probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in."

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post #15 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 11:38 AM
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You fellows are victims of your concrete assumptions. I think what Syria wants is to no longer be a potential victim of another Nazi-style US invasion.
FTL, I'm not a "victim" of anything and my "concrete assumptions" come from my own observations of the situation. Rather than make ad hominum attacks, why don't you explain your "assumptions" or enlightened ideas and why you hold them.
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post #16 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mcbear
I agree that the power [and primary problem] in the area is Iran but I believe that you need to have everyone talking. Even a gentle nudge from an unlikely source might turn out to be the key to a solution. Often if you get the minor players involved they feel the need to make a name for themselves and work harder at a solution than the major players, all who have too much ego tied to the end result.

As LBJ once said: "It’s probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in."
Until they prove otherwise, Syria is Iran's lapdog. There is no reason for us to engage both the player and its lapdog. Focus on the player, the lapdog will do as it's told.

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post #17 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 11:43 AM
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Until they prove otherwise, Syria is Iran's lapdog. There is no reason for us to engage both the player and its lapdog. Focus on the player, the lapdog will do as it's told.
Good point...
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post #18 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 12:15 PM
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Until they prove otherwise, Syria is Iran's lapdog. There is no reason for us to engage both the player and its lapdog. Focus on the player, the lapdog will do as it's told.
I am appreciating the fact that you seem to have more than just a common understanding of what the middle east is all about. One point, though. The goal of the Arab nations is the utter destruction of Israel and their subsequent removal from all world maps. Nothing more, nothing less. What is there really to negotiate?

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post #19 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 12:21 PM
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Frankly, I don't give a rat's ass about Israel -- I am primarily concerned with our interests in Iraq. If Israel cannot fend for itself after 50 years of suckling on U.S. teats, then perhaps it should fall. We have given them the support and the tools to fend for themselves, just as any loving, nurturing parent would do for his/her child. But at some point, this 50 y/o child should make its own way in the world, don't you think? The blind, blanket assumption that U.S. and Israeli interests are joined at the hip merits a great deal of scrutiny, IMHO.

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post #20 of 154 (permalink) Old 04-04-2007, 12:22 PM
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As LBJ once said: "It’s probably better to have him inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in."
That's a hilarious quote McBear, thanks for sharing!

Good 'ole LBJ. I hated the lying bassturd (I think he won in 1964 on the platform plank that he was following the supposed JFK intention of withdrawal) when he was in office because he damn near sent me to Viet Nam along with the rest of those poor souls...

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